| Pemalite said:
Why wait? Some consoles already support such monitors. - However, the true leap will be when televisions support the technology.
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HollyGamer said:
Xbox One X already support that, PS5 and Xbox Scarlet are going to use HDMI 2.1 Freesync already confirmed
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The evidence says you can't...
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HollyGamer said:
Which evidence that said cannot, the big the Flops is compared to the same architecture for example RTX 2070 and RTX 2070 super, the obvious the advantage is, RTX 2070 sit around 8 teraflop while 2070 super sit at 9 teraflop, the benchmark for real world performance shows and the teraflop represented how big the difference is . I said compared it to the same chipd design and architecture and the same bit integer .
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That is why it's best to avoid it in it's entirety?
HollyGamer said:
Well let's hope it's happen, and the marketer from Sony and Microsoft avoid it, but most developer are still using it , hell even PC GPU vendor still using it.
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Still not as much time as you think it is, they still need to store up inventory for the assembly process (months), they still need to do various logistics like shipping all around the world (months) and the like.
The fact that they are using Zen 2 and Navi is just a testament to Microsoft/Sony not leveraging more cutting edge technologies outside of a few semi-custom improvements.
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HollyGamer said:
I said we still have time not because of production timeline, i said it's because we you and I and the rest of gamer still dont have the fully detail of the chip
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Those were advertising numbers, if you are porting a design from an older process, you are unlikely to achieve those goal points without some significant revisions to your library.
7nm isn't where the buck stops anyway.
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HollyGamer said:
Advertising number or not it's still a number that can be used for estimating, the probability is still viable, especially we don't kno, especially we don't have the exact number.
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7nm+ is likely to be more expensive than 7nm for awhile due to that aspect, lots of retooling needs to take place for a relatively modest gain.
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HollyGamer said:
For while is not hindrance as long as they can keep up with sells , Sony are not selling console they are selling games. Console are needed because they need a platform to sell their games, the better the hardware the better the games.
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Not being pessimistic, I am being realistic.
Yes things like Ray Tracing will catch-on more extensively in the gaming landscape if more hardware supports it... It's already gained significant momentum in the PC space without AMD, without consoles, without mobile supporting the technology, especially in the modding world.
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HollyGamer said:
"It's already gained significant momentum " No it's not, in fact it's far from recognition. Just count how many games are using Ray Tracing, nad count how many people utilize ray tracing on their games, how many GPU are sold on market based on Steam , Epic Store or GOG survey. The mainstream GPU is still 1050 ti and the lower spec requirement for games is till GTX 660 or close to it.
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In saying that, Ray Tracing is far from a fad, it's a fundamental shift in rendering that has been taking place for decades and is deemed the "holy grail" of rendering. I wouldn't underestimate it's impact in the future.
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HollyGamer said:
For now is still a fad because only small number of games that can be counted with finger supported and all of those are hit and miss, we will seing a better one next gen due to console also supported
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And yes I do want a more powerful console as that will reflect on PC titles... But let's be brutally honest, if the consoles leverage the fastest AMD Navi GPU, then performance is likely to sit at around the Geforce 2060 Super, which is a mid-range graphics chip, not a high-end one... I wanted more.
I also wanted more when the 8th gen launched and we ended up with a Radeon 7750/7850 level GPU's, I understood why we couldn't due to cost however, doesn't mean I can't want more?
That isn't a contradiction, it's understanding the situation of something and wanting it to be better.
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HollyGamer said:
Then why are you arguing with me LOL, are you arguing for the sake of arguing. We are both agree we want more power and we both understand why it's difficult to achieve that.
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And? It's not like the performance of the 1080Ti disappears into an endless void? PC Gamers will sink that extra performance overhead into driving up resolutions framerates and quality settings. - Conesole games for all their talk of "Optimization" tends to fall around the medium quality presets in games whilst PC games can drive it up to High and Ultra which is a significant step up visually.
Plus I provided evidence that the PC gets optimizations anyway.
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HollyGamer said:
Nobody said 1080ti performance disappeared, because i agree PC gamer can choose to set the setting to ultra or crank up the resolution, but then again that's not the point of the argument. the point you pay more, just to play the same games on the setting that is not bring any significant difference unless you stop , pause and close your eyes to see the detail.
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PC gets optimizations as per the evidence provided prior.
HollyGamer said:
Optimization on general and high level API not on the level where the games for PC optimized for individual part of your PC at home.
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Not really. There is no such thing as the "lowest spec PC". - PC's date back decades, there is no cut-off line.
Developers make a decision on the lowest hardware level they are willing to support... Often it's the consoles like the Xbox One and Playstation 4 which sets the baseline of games rather than the PC, especially for multiplat AAA titles.
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HollyGamer said:
The lowest of the mainstream spec that available on the market, the one that sold a lot and used by many gamers. , of course they will not use low spec from the old era and previous generation
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Consoles are not used just for gaming.. You can web browse, play music, watch movies, upload twitch streams, record footage, voice/video chat with other gamers... And in the XBox One's case... Runs multiple Operating Systems concurrently and can multitask.
Hence why the consoles reserve more Ram than my Windows 10 Operating System uses.
Maybe you have forgotten that consoles have become more PC-like and that trend will only continue as we enter next gen?
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HollyGamer said:
Gaming is their primary task while others is very small portion that not affect a lot on their function, even PS4 have less capability on entertainment compared to PS3 and even Xbox One. You can see how powerful PS4 compared to Xbox due to the API alone. Xbox are using direct X API that are used on PC . and Xbox One is so slow even on their menu and UI, let alone on the games. It's not just because they have less capable hardware but the combination of all aspect that focus on everything rather on one thing. PS4 is the console that represent console. I bet Xbox Scarlet will not be like Xbox One and will be like PS4.
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Who cares? Vulkan is on PC? Developers can use it? Direct X 12 is far from being the only game in town.
No developer builds games directly to the metal anymore in machine code, it's a waste of time and money, especially with how good compilers are these days.
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HollyGamer said:
Say Hello to first party Ip especially Sony and Nintendo, Well some Microsoft from the past era, now not anymore due their games are being made for PC so they are using direct X
Of Course isn't a console thing, but my point is still correct, PC need raw performance due to compatibility on every spec combination on the market, thus it's sacrifice maximal optimization that can only happen on single device like console.
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I have obviously already provided the evidence that the PC doesn't need raw extra performance in order to provide a console-level experience.
HollyGamer said:
but you need to pay more, run more power tdp run more space, noise, and heat to run the same games . Just look how big PC with radeon 7870 and CPU with mobo and power supply in 2013 to 2014 |
Not always.
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HollyGamer said:
See you contradict yourself, yet on previous argument you said "No developer builds games directly to the metal anymore in machine code, it's a waste of time and money, especially with how good compilers are these days"
I just pointing out the fact that game developer are lazy and just using Directx and Opengl to porting the games to consoles, thus not all the benefit of console shows.
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Oh. So you are saying PC is cheaper?
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HollyGamer said:
Cheaper is vague words, there is so many transalation what cheaper is, PC for working is cheaper than console but when you add a capable GPU and capable CPU it could almost double the price.
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From the information we have... Navi on the consoles will be deviating somewhat from the PC derivative of Navi and implementing dedicated Ray Tracing cores into the graphics processor.
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HollyGamer said:
We still don't know, probably you are tru, probably or not for now i am willing to agree because we dont have any other info
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Again, I have already provided evidence where it's not a guaranteed recipe for success relative to the machines that are being replaced.
(3DS, WiiU etc'.)
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HollyGamer said:
It's not guaranteed , i can agree with that, but It's a guaranteed if your console can deliver. 3DS was killed by the mobile market and their focus is different from NDS the same thing happen Wii U are killed by their promotion department and their focus and consumer are different from Wii . So my point is still right. The PS5 backward compatibility is not guaranteed to win but it will do with PS5 because they focus are clear "hardcore gaming " the same with PS4 was. All Hardcore gamers from PS4 at least will buy PS5 games
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PC gamers play alone? The most popular games on PC are multiplayer games.
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HollyGamer said:
My mistake, what i mean not playing alone (single player ) I said nobody buy PC just to play games only except some people who are really rich.
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Majority of console games these days don't even allow for split-screen multiplayer these days.
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HollyGamer said:
This is not true many games are still using split screens , is just that we have many genre on console that is hard to count how many of them . Hell even Diablo 3 that popular on PC are play better on console using split screen . I am not saying PC dont have these feature (because sometimes you will try to argue with me , so i will said that's not what i am trying to argue)
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Consoles are just becoming more PC-like, consoles need updating, games constantly need updating. - Everytime I turn my Xbox One X on... Chances are I have 10's of Gigabytes worth of patches that needs to roll down the internet tubes and be applied... If that is "console convenience and simplicity" - You can keep it.
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I agree console are becoming " like " PC, but "console is not PC", and having Driver Updates does not change your console becoming PC. Of course if you want you can instal windows on Xbox One or linux to your PS4 by jailbreaking your consoles. Yes i think you need to try and do benchmark how the games run on both consoles using windows OS and Linux with Steam OS. you will realize how console is superior running games on low level API instead using windows. just look at this PC version of Quantum Break run on PS4 pro hardware, is even worse than Xbox One performance .
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