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HollyGamer said:

Flops is not important,  but can be a measurement for a certain degree, who wouldn't want a 10 teraflop Navi GPU inside console?  Even Xbox One X is 6 teraflop and 2 teraflop more than PS4 Pro and have an advantage over PS4 Pro in real world performance. 

Nope. It can't be used as a measurement because it's a theoretical number and not a real-world performance number.

The amount of Flops also doesn't tell us the capabilities of the rest of the chip only the single precision floating point, so things like geometry performance, fillrate, integer, half precision, quarter precision, double precision, bandwidth and so on... Which are also vital aspects of a GPU don't even get mentioned.

HollyGamer said:

7nm+ is feasible on 2020 , remember PS4 Pro ? They release  PS4 Pro at the same time frame with the release of RX 480 where the fabrication of 14nm just hit the market . Sony if they wanted they can just release this year PS5 with RX 5700 or RX 5700 Xt inside their console easily with 7nm. That's why there is still a big possibility if they delay the console to 2020 they are planning to use  7nm+ . 

You might be a little bit confused.
The Playstation 4 Pro doesn't use a 14nm fabrication process... Rather it is 16nm at TSMC. - Global Foundries 14nm was what the RX 480 used, based on Samsung technology, thus they aren't remotely comparable.
The Playstation 4 Pro dropped in November 2016... We had 16nm TSMC chips rolling out an entire year before that... And designs being taped out a year or two even before that. - We don't have any 7nm+ chips yet and designs have only just started to tape out.

Sony also can't "choose" to do anything when they want to, they are at the mercy of the fabs and AMD and how big their wallets are, Sony doesn't make monolithic chips anymore, it doesn't own leading-edge foundries, it needs to rely on everyone else to do that and thus they need to adhere to their production time frames just like everyone else.

HollyGamer said:

Based on the leak, Gonzalo already faster than 1080 , it means it's equal or slightly less to normal 2070 without RT. Next year Nvidia probably will release 3000 series GPU , so RTX 3060 probably going to end up as strong as RTX 2070. So PS5 will be comparable to RTX 3060 next year the budget line up and budget price like usual. 

If it's faster than the 1080, then it means it's likely slower than the 1080Ti or roughly in the same ballpark, which will be 4+ years old by the time next gen hardware launches.

That would be like hoping that the Radeon 7850-level GPU in the Playstation 4 was faster than the Radeon 4870, which it is... It's not actually that big of an achievement.

RTX 3060/Geforce 3060 levels of performance in 2020 won't be anything to write home about, but it is impressive when compared to hardware of today.. But like always, hardware improvements don't stop... It just puts things into perspective that consoles generally aim for mid-range cost-effective hardware... That's not a bad thing per-say.

HollyGamer said:

The bottom line i would expect PS5 will be just another PS4 like in 2013 by having mid/mainstream GPU power to compete next year, but with better CPU this time and SSD. But my dream and hope is PS5 could at least compete with mid to high GPU like RTX 3070 or RTX 2080 in raw power and dont care for the price and ready to pay 499 to 599 USD. 

No way is it going to be in the same league as the Geforce RTX 2080. - Geforce RTX 2070 is the best you could hope for.
Remember... Navi is only good for an extra 25% IPC improvement over GCN... The rest of the gains comes from a rebalancing of the hardware, bandwidth gains and clockspeed boosts relative to Polaris.

There is a massive divide between AMD and nVidia... And considering consoles need to be conservative with TDP's due to their limited cooling capacity and power delivery... We need to keep things in perspective and not overhype things.

HollyGamer said:

Ray tracing is not new thing but for gaming especially on console, it is still holy grail for mainstream gamer. But i doubt they will just selling console only for RT, that's why i am just saying that's just  for the example, they can still sell the "no loading time" or 4k and 8k or 120 fps. Hell even on Sony side their reputation as the best play games for exclusives is still unbeatable even if Scarlet ended up 3 times more powerful than PS5 LOL. They just need to say "we got better exclusives quality and quantity" that is more than enough.

Ray Tracing was always one of those technologies that was going to "creep" it's way in gradually over time... Games started dabbling in Ray Tracing even back in the 7th gen... And I wouldn't be surprised (I haven't looked it up specifically yet!) the 6th gen with some deferred renderers.

In saying that, we are only getting our tippy toes wet in regards to ray tracing.

HollyGamer said:

Hell even PS4 backward compatibility already ensure PS5 will sell as much PS4 if not more.

If backwards compatibility alone is what ensures that the successive console is to outsell the previous...

Then why didn't the 3DS outsell the DS?
Why didn't the Xbox One outsell the Xbox 360?
Why didn't the Playstation 3 outsell the Playstation 2?
Why didn't the WiiU outsell the Wii?

It's a bold assertion either way. I get that backwards compatibility is certainly a value-added incentive to retain some gamers, but from the statistics provided... Those who go back and play older games are actually very much a minority.

EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said:

8 Teraflops isn't needed for guaranteed full native 4k.

It all depends on the level of fidelity you wish to chase, there is more to life than flops... Which is finally the message Microsoft and Sony are starting to put out there that is also finally starting to catch on with the gaming community. Yay. Finally.

Flops has always been irrelevant, it's a theoretical number, not a real world one.

Not sure you got the main point, that in terms of the future marketing of the PS5, pointing out that XB1X at 6TF wasn't going to be "true 4k" like MS was saying, and that the next PS console would be at least double the GPU performance of the Pro (on paper), and would basically be guaranteed full native 4k capable. Maybe that's what he was hinting, maybe not. That wouldn't mean all games would be 4k/60 or whatever, but that they all would be capable of running 4k/30 if a dev wanted to without having to downgrade the eye candy. Also would depend on what PS would require from devs who make games for PS5. Cerny may have had an idea about where Navi was planned to land in terms of it's capabilities, and would know approximately where PS5 was planned to land in terms of performance, so he would be able to say something like he did, knowing he wouldn't be all that far off, and worst case hopefully, it's actually 8TF and no lower his sake. I was looking at the statement in less of a tech perspective and more of an overall marketing perspective. If Cerny is going to be the lead architect but also one of the faces and voices of the company, he has to play the PR game too.

And he does play the PR game. That was made abundantly clear when the Playstation 4 and Playstation 4 Pro dropped.
That doesn't mean his statements don't carry some credible tidbits of information... But his claims need to be weighed appropriately and within a non-hyped context.

The point I am trying to convey is that all the console manufacturers play these "games" in order to assert their platform as the best gaming platform, it's been going on for decades.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 04 July 2019

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