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NightlyPoe said:
Pinkie_pie said:

He never quit because his team was bad. He retired because his father was murdered. His team was still the best when he retired because he stayed and built a dynasty. Lebron was the one that quit and ran to join up with wade and bosh because he knew he couldnt win a championship with Cleveland. I cant believe you think jordan 1st retirement is the same as lebron leaving Cleveland to join wade and bosh. Jordan wanted to beat the best. Not join them. Lebron went back to Cleveland because they still had kyrie and the no.1 pick and Lebron knew he could get an all star player for that which was kevin love. Jordan also was a better leader than lebron. When Jr smith had brain fade at the end of game 1, lebron didnt encourage his team instead he was sitting on the bench in silence and feeding the discouragement. Jordan not only won all of his finals series , (the 30 games you mentioned) his home and away record is still far better than curry and lebron. Build a team around jordan with a single all star and you start winning championship after championship and thats why its easier to win championship if you build a team around jordan because he only needs 1 all star. Bird, curry and lebron had multiple all stars but could only win 3 championship each compare to jordans 6

Several things:

1.  Jordan quit after Phil Jackson retired, the team's core was getting old (he was 35, Pippen was 32, and Rodman was 38), and it was going to be difficult to bring everyone back.  It was going to be even harder to keep everyone on the same page.  Jordan knew that without Jackson, the Bulls were going to fall apart.  So, yes, Jordan quit because his team was bad.  Or at least his team was unlikely to win another championship.  Jordan was already approaching burnout again, and had no desire to fail.  So he quit again and only came back when the pressure of being Jordan was off.

2.  Jordan did not retire the first time because his father died.  Not only has Jordan said he planned to do it before his father died in his autobiography, but he was telling people he wanted to retire as early as 1991 as documented in the biography "The Jordan Rules" released in 1992, Jordan was talking about it through the 93 season, and the night after they won the championship he told Darrell Walker that he'd probably seen him play for the last time the night after winning the first threepeat.  Jordan was simply burnt out.  At best you can say that maybe he would have changed his mind if his father were still alive and his murder crystallized his thoughts, but this just kicks the retirement can down the road one more year.  He didn't want to be Jordan anymore and switched to a sport where there wouldn't be a burden that comes with failing.

Yes, quitting to avoid the pressure of failure was a common theme in both retirements.  Jordan is lauded for his mental tenacity, but his mentality was toxic and shortened his career.  If the Bulls had fallen apart after he left, as they would have if they didn't have a 2nd MVP candidate, the best coach in the league, and Krause re-tooling on the fly, Jordan would have stayed retired because he wouldn't have wanted to spend a second rebuilding.  No more championships, no more games.  And the only reason it didn't happen was because the Chicago Bulls really were a good team and not just a one-man show.

Do you see what I mean by a quirk in history?

3.  I didn't compare Lebron's going to Miami to Jordan's first retirement.  I compared it to the other two team changes.  But Jordan quitting was a much bigger black mark than Lebron leaving a team that would never win a championship to stack the deck in his favor for a few years.

4.  When Lebron arrived back in Cleveland, Kyrie Irving was only a budding talent, there was no guarantee of getting Kevin Love, and the rest of the team was a hot mess.  That was a gamble.  It was a challenge.  If it were merely chasing rings, James could have gone to any of the two dozen teams that were better than the Cavaliers.  He chose the challenge of winning in Cleveland.  As he chose the challenge of Los Angeles.  The "chasing rings" narrative is long over.

5.  Jordan needed one star.  And the best coach in NBA history.  And the league's best shooter.  And the best rebounder in the league.  And the best 6th man in the league.  The Bulls were never a two-man team either.  Again, without Jordan they only lost a couple more games in 1994.  Yes, they got a couple of pieces, but obviously they were still good without Jordan.

So, two points.  First, Michael Jordan's legacy rested on a very shaky set of circumstances.  The six championships might well have never happened if not for events totally out of his control.  And a large reason for it is due to a flaw in Jordan's makeup that forced him out of the game early twice even with all his success.

Second, that's why championships don't mean as much as you're making out.  Yes, players have a say in how things turn out.  But so do injuries, both to themselves and their teammates.  The salary cap has a say in things.  A front office and coaching staff has a say.  Trainers have a say.  The era you're in and your competition has a say.  You can repeat "six championships" all day, but that isn't the end of the discussion.

Jordan was 35 when he retired the 2nd time. 95% of the players lucky to be playing at that age. Jordan had already won 3 championships with the team that drafted him when he 1st retired he didnt have anything else to prove unlike Lebron leaving his team because he knew he couldnt win.  Again jordan didnt need the best rebounder, the best 6th man to win his 1st 3 peat. Jordan haters always making shit up im done with you