| Bofferbrauer2 said: @bolded: That would have been true until 2014, but since then China tightened up their environmental policies a lot. And it was high time for them, as the Water was both getting rare and slowly undrinkable with high amounts of cancer-causing NDMA; over 15% of the soils is strongly polluted, severely affecting farming and lending to the water problem mentioned above; overgrazing made the Gobi desert grow by about 1000 square miles per year; the air became unbreathable in certain cities during certain times (which is probably why China changed course on environment in the first place); and had the largest algae bloom ever in the Chinese sea, threatening their fisheries. Or in short, the unchecked exploitation of their ressources started to threaten their own economy and the lives of their inhabitants. So, they had to change their ways. Huawei is, sorry, was certainly dominant in the US, especially in rural regions, which relied very much upon them. But outside of there, their domination is much smaller. In bigger cities, it's normally either Ericcson or Nokia who are behind the carriers, not Huawei. @underlined: Well. there is a new space race, and more exactly a new race to the moon, with the US, China and now also Russia again trying to get there first, and this time to stay there. So a push from governmental research might be exactly what is needed to push the US faster forward. |
China's environmental regulations are still a far cry in comparison to the western world ...
Huawei is extremely dominant in the European carrier business. The biggest carriers in that region such as T-mobile, Vodafone, Telenor, Telefonica, etc rely on Huawei equipment for wireless networks such as LTE and soon for 5G ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
Any dictatorship or brainwashing type setup is going to defy the idea of low pay having bad effects. Low pay on China's level is bad to implement in the economies of free countries, but good to implement in the economies of places like China, or any place where people are heavily suppressed. Pointing to China and saying "see low pay works" misses the point as much as pointing to American Slavery in the south and saying "see low pay works". |
Low pay in China helped hundreds of millions of people get out of poverty and low pay has other benefits as well such as corporations being able to whether rainy days ...
Low pay has it's own benefits regardless of China's system. Having unions combat against low pay is anti-consumer ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
Republicans pretty much gutted government research funding the past few decades. It's a shadow of it's old self. That's why few new breakthroughs come from it. Yep. That's one of the biggest problems with American government now. Everything has been captured by corporate interests. In the same sense that we get unqualified rich idiots like Betsy Devos, or Ben (aliens built the pyramids) Carson running the education and housing departments, we would get some crony giving all the grants to his buddies who own corp X. Fixing the issue of non-specialists, and lobbyists being given key positions is something that would need to be done alongside a return to massive government research. How to non-specialists wind up in these positions? Bribes. Bribes known an campaign contributions and endorsements. |
I couldn't care less about the partisan bickering because at the end of the day both democrats and republicans have been resounding failures. It's not just republicans that are guilty at the end of the day, you have democrats who are promoting homeopathy, anti-GMO, and anti-nuclear power so there's a deficit in scientific literacy on both sides ...
Having a government run by corporate interests isn't so bad after all when China is a success story for it. I have unconditional respect for Ben Carson since he's was a physician so he's one of the very few people within the American federal government that has scientific credentials. Non-specialists wind up in these positions because the American people themselves don't desire it and they're too busy making ideological stand-offs against each other so you get failure regardless if nobody is willing to compromise ...
The Chinese add technocrats because it's precisely as I outlined before in which they desire to technologically catch up. Once they surpass America, I doubt anyone can match a highly educated workforce of over a billion people ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
No true scotsman fallacy. Having existed in real life makes something not a concept. Whether or not it was sold to consumers is as irrelevant as what a scotsman eats for food. NSFNET was created by the National Science Foundation, which is another government program. Yes, they did transition from ARPANET to NSFNET. The government wasn't interested in expanding ARPANET because the defense department considered the project complete. |
The backhauls are important as it's the backbone of the internet because sadly without it a network without it is just an intranet ...
The government may have created some hardware but without ISPs providing the backbone, we don't have the internet ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
Like I said before, government funded research was mostly gutted decades ago. Hard to show how fast the horse can run, when it's been starved all winter. |
What was that about government funded research being "gutted decades ago" ?
The US government has spent $50B for nearly 20 years now and they don't have any results to show for it ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
No, you didn't argue that specifically, but it was heavily implied. So now you're going with there being an exponential cost relationship? Okay. In 1971 the cost of public college (room, board, tuition, fees) was $34,936 for all four years (adjusted for inflation). https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532 That same year there were 8.94 million college students in the USA. (Statistica from before) In 1980 the cost of public college was $30,340 for all four years (adjusted for inflation). There were 12.1 million college students in the USA in 1980. If your theory about increased attendance causing tuition rates to increase exponentially held any water, we should see costs of college massively increase from 71 to 80. They don't. |
Whatever amount the general trend seems to be is that tuition increases non-linearly ...
It's simple to find cheaper schools in America. You just have to shop around and don't expect to go out of state either ...
College does need to be affordable but at the same time there needs to be a ROI so it might be worth trying to waive some of the tuition fees for some programs like engineering or the life sciences ...
| Cerebralbore101 said:
Yes, exactly. Politicians today are too busy chasing down the next campaign contribution to worry about technological leadership. We need to change that. Sadly, it will probably only change once the USA is seriously getting its ass kicked by China. It took the great depression for enough political will in the past. Okay, so you do mean monopolies in the sense that every major player is located in the USA? I can't really disagree with that. If all three major console game companies were located in the USA, we'd have a monopoly on consoles, but there'd still be competition between the three. That's perfectly fine and healthy. Yes, I can imagine that future. That future is going to be very real in the next 15-25 years, and when that happens hopefully people will wake up to the importance of a mixed economy ala the 60's. Also, hopefully China gets lazy in its prosperity, the same way our politicians, businesses, etc. started to value their own personal wealth over the good of the nation in the 70's and 80's. To be honest, I'd just be happy mankind was finally getting off this rock. We are dangerously close to making space travel impossible thanks to all the litter in orbit around earth. But yeah, China saying "we own the moon" would be annoying. |
A mixed economy is not important, what matters is a strong political will to invest in technology and I doubt China will ever be complacent in that regard because their citizens are more enlightened than they have ever been ...
Last edited by fatslob-:O - on 29 May 2019
