Epic buys out Psyonix devs, set to bar game from Steam

[Nautilus]

Chazore said:

Nautilus said:
I understand why you are upset, but I dont get how this is setting a new "low" for Epic.They are doing the smart move in trying to overtake the pc space, and as the last few months has shown, its paying off for them.

In the example you gave about Valve buying Campo Santo and not making them exclusives to Steam, but your example is flawed.They didnt tie them up to a store because they didnt need to, they owned the market, for better or for worse.You need to understand that they are a company, and a company that butting heads with Valve, a ginat in the videogame market.They are not going to win the fight by being nice.It sucks that you are being get in the crossfire, but thats just how things are.

And honestly, 95% of the PC users dont care.At all.Its "mostly" the same if they buy from Valve or from Epic, because what they care about is the product, not the company.And honestly, service features, as Epic has been showing through their success, is less important than people think.I mean, its important, but its not a life or death situation, and the most important thing is, as we all knew ever since gaming was born, is that its the games that matter.

PC is finally catching up to the consoles wars, in a way.You may think thats bad, anmd I honestly dont care, but this is good for the consumers in the long run, because it stops Valve from being as lazy as they have been, and make companies be more competitive, and bring better products for us.

1)The new low, is that they are targeting devs to poach, to then allow them to take their games off of Steam. This isn't a smart move at all. All this little childish "war" is doing, is splitting and creating a clear divide between those that side with Epic, and those that side with Valve. This isn't what the gaming industry needs, when has it ever needed such a vulgar and disgusting divide?. 

2)Except no, I mentioned Santo because Valve are allowing them to make their games and still release elsewhere. Epic on the other hand, are taking an existing game, made well before this recent deal, off of Steam. Steam hasn't bought up Santo just to take their games off of other storefronts, that's the biggest difference here and if you cannot see that, then I'm sorry but I cannot help you at all in that matter. 

3)I understand it perfectly. I understand what Epic is trying to do, and it is absolutely not in my best interests, or other gamers, who are currently still talking about what Epic is doing to the PC market. It may be good to you, but what of me, do I suddenly not matter at all?. If I did matter, then where does our little conundrum end?, with me leaving the PC space, because one company became so salty over a decade ago, about a platform that they couldn't control, which ended up with them feeling to a console, only to come back and try controlling that market all over again?.

4)Epic are actually worth more than Valve, in case you didn't already know. They have one of the world's most profitable games. They have one of the world's most used engines by a country mile, and they have more income support via another party, than Valve ever could, yet somehow, Valve are the biggest, if not largest company out there?. Naw man, that ain't it. 

5)This isn't about being nice. Jesus man, I don't get any of you folk on here, or anywhere else, that see this sort of thing as healthy" or "normal", or "just business", like it's something that's just to be accepted and praised for. It makes me question what would you folk do if you had your very lives taken away, would you even bother fighting against something, even if you had very little chances (likely not, because you're seen here excusing practical bs in the face of anything else, summing it up with "it just happens").

6)Again, this isn't about being "Nice", this is about showing actual consumers, the lifeblood of many an industry, that they care, that they want your money, that they want to work for it in an honest manner, not some scrappy underhanded one. Are you not even aware of good business practices and tactics?, because if so, why haven't you tried to sum any up that Epic could use, instead of just falling back onto excusing the vulgar ones?. 

7)This whole "it needs to happen" logic is borked, because why would it need to happen, when there are clearly other ways of doing business?. This whole "it can only be done this way" itself is flawed, because it doesn't. You just think it needs to, because you think you know how to run an open ended market, and think everyone would just accept it that way of being run (which I don't already).

8)You say 95%, but can you actually even lay a claim to that with evidence, apart from small sales data (that isn't entirely spun in such a way). 

9)Can I ask you, are features not important to you?, because that would give me a good look into your mind if the answer is "no". I don't do fence sitter answers either, it's a simple yes or no answer. 

10)I honestly don't care what logic is spun, in the defense of bad tactics. All I see is long term damage and a group of people, who aren't even a part of this side of the industry, telling me straight to my face, that this is "objectively good for you", without actually seeing into the future itself, but basing that entirely from personal knowledge, of a different market, one that isn't open ended and is entirely different in it's nature. 

11)Valve are making games, but I'll say this. I Think Ubisoft are lazy in the way they design games and design PC ports, as well as them designing games I think are gutter trash, but guess what?, you think the same of Valve in terms of games you clearly don't like, so in that respect, I don't care what appeals to you, because you'll never care for what appeals to me.

Oh boy.Here we go.

Well, I know how you work Chazore, how single minded you are in your opinions, so I will avoid writing long essays about the topic at hand just to avoid spending up to one hour writing these replies.Im also going to separate and address each paragraph to make it easier to structure the text and for you to know what part Im replying to.

1)Welcome to the gaming industry.This happens ever since the dawn of the industry, or are you new to the forum?This was how the PS1 dominated the market.This was how Nintendo survived and Sega didnt.This was how PS4 rose above the others(ok, the PS4 won the gen because of more reasons), and how the Switch is so successful.Disruptions have existed and always will exist.Now, you might say that it never happened for PC, and that wouldnt be completely true since games arent made for all OS out there, like Linux and MAC, but Im not going there.Just to point out that this "childish war" is actually working:Im getting free games off of Epic, which never happened before.So one win for me and other gamers.And that still dosent stop them(gamers) from using Valve services when they want to actually buy a game.Win number two.As for the companies themselves:Well, Epic hasnt given up yet, have they?Plus, there have been a number of developers that came out and said that their games were successful enough on the storefront, so its obviously working.By how much, no one knows.But its surely not a failure.

2)Yes, and Ill repeat once more what I said, since you seemingly missed what I have written:They have done that because they had no competition.No other big storefront which would eat the sales of that developer games in the PC space, which is where their interest lied.So there was no need to make them exclusive.They didnt do that out of the goodness of their hearts, or because they were thinking of their beloved consumers.

3)But it is in other gamers interest, because we are getting the goods.Like I said, free games.And the price is still the same.I mean, there are some exceptions due to the paying method, but they are few and far betwenn.And honestly, from a purely business point of view(so Epic, Valve, Sony, MS, etc point of view): You dont matter at all.Your opinion dosent matter.As long as the majority of people that buys games dont mind, the minority(you) dont care one bit.That even includes the companies that you deem as "the good guys".They are here to make money, and one thing that you learn in life, is that you cant please everyone, and thats especially true for a business.

4)I was talking about the marketshare, not sheer value.So in the PC space, Valve matters more, easily.

5)God, you are comparing murder or physical assault to a simple business competition.This here alone should show you how absurd this discussion is.Yeah, if somewhere tried to kill me, I would hate it and would fight back, but thats not the case.The companies are going against each others throat, not mine.And in the process, Im getting free games.And who knows, Valve might start making games again, or even be more agressive on the discounts(which is very likely to happen).Yes, its healty, and there are countless examples through history to prove that.(Nintendo vs Sony, Sony 7th gen to 8th gen, MS 8th gen with its backtracking and agressive discounts, etc)

6)But Epic is doing everything that I would do if I were them.I mean, I would probably have waited an extra 6 months to add stuff to the storefront and make it more complete, but I would have done exactly the same.And  as you are seeing here and throught the internet, people agree with Epic.

7)You mean, do the same as GOG does?Or how itch.io does?Or as any other failed or "niche specific" storefront did?Because they clearly have a super healthy financial situation right now.

8) I dont.Its just my intuition and decades of experience of watching and accompanying the industry.Oh, and decades of gaming history that backs up my point.

9)As long as said lack of features dosent stop me from playing games altogether?No, or rather not as much as the games.Again, there is a reason why the Switch is so sucessful.Oh, and just FIY, if you stop this debate just because of my no, then Ill know that I have won this discussion.

10)Please, the PC mrket is no different from the console market.They are all a part of the gaming industry.They may differ in some small details, but they work the same.So yeah, I know as much, if not more, as you.And yeah, Epic is going to succeed.I mean, this exclusivity stuff wont last forever and things will eventually calm down, but it wont be the same.If you dont like that, you might as well just stop playing games.

11)Quite the opossite my friend.I very much like Valve games.I love Portal for example, and I really did enjoy the first Half Life.But thats just it, they stopped making games, or games that mtter anyway.The games that they are making now are either games like Artifact, which is actually a great example of being anti costumer with its shitty monetization system, or games that are multiplayer only, which I dont care for the most part.I want them to go back to making games like Portal, or Half Life or even Left 4 Dead, not what they make today.

Well, I ended up writing a long reply.