Flilix said:
John2290 said:
@Felix and whoever else pinged me.
Idon't know the statistics but based on the amount of plant food a Vegan eats times 8+ billion it does not even seem close to achievable it's not the same as making room and putting rescource to growing hat and corn. We feed cattle and other animals easily grown foods like corn for a reason, many eat grass land and hay. What you are proposing is just one evil over another as the farm land for growing certain plant and space for vegetable would have to be increased drastically, natural habitats and forestry would see a massive surge in destruction even faster than today from poor farmers in third world countries and then there is the issue of a bad harvest. Animals don't suffer from blight or other agricultural issues based on the weather so there would be potential food shortages that would easily lead to wars, hence why I said it would result in world war 3 and yes, it happens and to a degree that is pretty fucking scary considering we manage to navigate it yearly.
Not to mention the amount of asshattery and negative shit that the mood swings would have on every day life as well as the shear amount of time that would have to be allowed to worker so they can keep their diet in check. It would literally destroy the world as we know it and have the potential for great harm in so many ways.
Yes it is awful that we kill animals but we do it humanely, I believe we should have more open farms like in Europe rather than your American nonsense of mass herds kept in small enclosed ranches, where the animals can live just as they would not the wild and increase the age an animal can has to be raised before making it to the abattoir. This is a much more achievable goal than making the whole world a vegan mess.
There is always one aspect of this debate that Vegan fail to realize and that is putting farm animals back into the wild, when we all go Vegan in this utopia we have no incentive to take care of farm animals and they would be condemned to the wild, decreased in numbers and suffer from a slew of awful disease that we keep away from them. Have you ever been to a farm that Is in the mist of a spread of something like clostridial, I have, and it is not pretty to see animals waste away and die in such an almost zombie like state and then there is the issue of space for them, there is so little free grazing land left and in this Vegan paradise there would be need for so much more, where do the cattle go past the fences? Where fo the chickens go without the safety of theor hennhouse? Where do whores go? The thunra do be condemned to freeze to death for wandering to far north one winter? That's another thing we fo, protect animals from, nature and themselves.
We literally breed the animals, give them existence that they would not have on a human inhabited modern Earth. Are you lot going to deny thier extence if only it is for a brief time or are you going to condemn them to horrible diseases, to harsh winters they have long sense lost the instinct to weather themselves, the anxiety of being pushed back into smaller and less favourable habitats by humans who no longer can afford the time to bother and all the ills that entails. You just don't think of outcomes and expect everything to be this perfect set of ideals that manifest in reality from what floats around in your head, well nature doesn't work like that and nature is going to be a right cunt to these animals and not give the mercy of a quick death.
What you all should be fighting for is the basic right of animals to be given space and an extended period of life with more foresight and harsher punishment for Farmers who breach that right, and much, much more inspection of farms while to check on the livestock well being, which shouldn't be too hard in this day and age. Increasing staff of agencies that are assigned to keep track of this sort of thing would be one route. For the love of God, do something reasonable or do nothing at all, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is a laughing stock with the stuff she is proposing and diminishing the attention of future proposals by going so over the top and absurdist.
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@bolded 1
Here are the statistics. Jumpin posted them in this thread, just an hour before you wrote your post.
As you can see, plant food gives us 16 times as much calories per km², and almost 7 times as much protein. So agricultural land would actually decrease drastically, and we would have a lot more space for forests and nature. And the issue of bad harvest isn't nearly as much of an issue as you seem to think it is. When was the last time a harvest was so bad that it became unbuyable? We don't live in the middle ages anymore, we have enough technology to reduce weather damage to a minimum. Also, since we plant a wide variety of plants that can never all get affected by the same cause, this becomes even less of an issue. So, no, going vegan would not cause World War 3, as we'd have more food than ever.
@bolded 2
This would only happen when every single person would suddenly turn vegan at the same time, which would never happen. If we'd gradually go vegan, we would just stop farming animals. So we'd simply not let our livestock get offspring anymore, and the existing animals would just die of age after a few years.
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Not sure how accurate your source is...
But Brazil is among the biggest productor of both crop and cattle in the world. And here are our official statistics
http://g1.globo.com/mato-grosso-do-sul/noticia/2017/01/vegetacao-nativa-preservada-ocupa-61-da-area-do-brasil-diz-embrapa.html
61% of brazilian area is still original vegetation, breakdown:
11% of country area is preservation of native on rural properties
17% of country area is conservation area of native vegetation
13% of country area is native vegetation in Indian properties
20% of country area is area that isn't used at the moment
So we have 39% of area that isn't native vegetation, breakdown:
8% of country area for Crops and artificial forest (like pine for paper)
19,7% for cattle
11,3% cities, infrastructure, mining, etc.
So our agriculture have 11+19.7+8 = 38.7% of the country area with 1/3 mandatory original vegetation.
So nope, our farmers aren't destroying the environment.
This one https://www.embrapa.br/en/car/sintese have figures that would be easier for someone not brazilian to understand.
Basically shows that about 50% of the rural properties are used for production and the rest is preservation or original.
Cities otherwise are about 0% preservation of nature.
