| CrazyGPU said: 1- You don´t know how many bandwith the PS5 GPU is going to save using tecniques compared to PS4. The only way you can now that by now is if you work for Sony or AMD. You are guessing. |
I have a good idea. It is a minimum of 40% due to the improvements that Tonga introduced... Which I pointed towards prior.
Navi is still Graphics Core Next remember, so there isn't likely to be any dramatic movements in terms of architecture.
| CrazyGPU said: 2- My understanding of Teraflops is correct. Teraflops are what you said a tera number of floting point operations, and you are right, are identical. Companies make hardware that is capable of x teraflops theoretical, but practically (because of "the other things" as you said), you can´t reach that theoretical teraflops and you end up with a lower effective number. That´s why I said the Nvidia teraflops that your read on paper can´t be compared to AMDs. An Nvidia card that say 8 teraflops is actually faster in practise than an AMD card with 10 with last implementations. But that´s because how the hardware is implemented and taking advantage of. Is like constructing a highway that is capable of transporting 100 cars per minute passing through in a fixed place, but because of the bumps, trafic lights and so on, it´s never full and ends up transporting 50 cars per minute. A road capable of 70 cars per minute without bumps and trafic lights will be faster. Same with Nvidia and AMD. So I guess it´s pretty much the same you are saying. There are bottlenecks that don´t allow the graphic calculation engine to reach its peak. But we have to compare anyway with something, specially if it is the same company. The comparison will not be scientific, just a number for having an idea and speculate. |
AMD's hardware can almost reach it's theoretical floating point limits, just not in gaming.
But even when comparing AMD's hardware against AMD's hardware, flops is a pretty useless metric.
| CrazyGPU said: 3- yes, It were your numbers, you said PS3 had 192 Gflops , and that is (rounding it) 0.2 Teraflops or 0.192 to be exact. And playstation 4 has 1.84 Tf. Sony´s numbers and nobody says the contrary on that. 9x. We are not going 9x from PS4 to PS5. |
You rounding it to 0.2 teraflops makes it your number. Mine is 192Gflop.
I never once mentioned the multiples of performance increases we are going to have.
| CrazyGPU said: And Resolution, yes a PS3 has a bandwith of 22,4 for an HD machine compared to a 176 GB/s PS4, Full HD machine, that´s doubling the pixels (1 megapixel to 2. PS5 will cuadruple the pixels to 4k (8.3 Mpix) so It should need even more bandwith difference and it´s not going to have it. Tecniques are going to help but the jump will be smaller. |
720P is 921,600 pixels.
1080P is 2,073,600 pixels.
That is an increase of 2.25x. Not a strict doubling.
The Playstation 4 also doesn't implement Delta Colour Compression, some aspects like alpha effects are pretty bandwidth heavy, hence why resolution and bandwidth don't generally share a linear relationship as they increase.
In short though, 25GB/s-50GB/s tends to be the general ballpark for 720P gaming. - 150GB/s-200GB/s for 1080P gaming (Often you can push it to 1440P too).
512GB/s bandwidth as per Vega 64 (483.8GB/s), Geforce 1080 Ti (484GB/s), Titan X (480GB/s), Titan XP (547.7GB/s), RX 2080Ti (616GB/s) all seem to be capable 4k parts on the PC... And that is on top of dramatic increases in general fidelity too.
But if you take the Xbox One X... It has 326GB/s of bandwidth... But thanks to the ROP/Memory Crossbar mis-match can potentially drop to 256GB/s in real-world scenarios.
But it also implements... You guessed it. Delta Colour Compression which potentially brings it's bandwidth up to 456GB/s... But because it's not pushing High or Ultra-PC settings, means it doesn't need to spend as much fillrate on Alpha effects, so can drive up resolutions instead.
| CrazyGPU said: As how effective is going to be a 10-12 Tf machine, how would I know?, I don´t know how it´s going to be fed. I don´t know about the cache amount, The speed of DDR6 memory, the number of schedulers, The ROPS, Texture units, etc. We have to wait to see Navi architecture at least and see how it compare to olders. |
Lets get it out of the way.
Graphics Core Next generally is not compute limited. It is often ROP starved, Geometry Starved, Bandwidth Starved... So might as well ignore the Teraflop issue entirely.
As for the rest... Navi is Graphics Core Next It is part of the same Graphics generation as the Xbox One and Playstation 4... And Polaris's successor and not Vega's.
Thus we can surmise what the architecture is likely to have...
It will not exceed 64 CU's.
It will not exceed 64 ROPS.
It will have a 4:1 TMU to CU count.
It will have 1x Command Processor.
It will have 4x Geometry Processors with a substantial increase in throughput thanks to NGG.
It will be built at 7nm.
It will be backed by moderately clocked GDDR6. (Cost is the factor.)
It will have Delta Colour Compression.
It will have Primitive Shaders.
It will have Draw Stream Binning Rasterization.
It will have Primative Discarding capability.
And I could go on... So whilst we don't have confirmation on the final numbers of what the hardware entails, we can still make a very educated guess on what we can expect.
| CrazyGPU said: 4- Compression or not, the jump will be less this gen. And I said 800 of uncompressed bandwith, calculated arround 512 GB/s compressed bandwith with the new tecniques. So what I meant was arround 512 GB/s but effective as 800 GB/s were at PS4 launch. The jump will be smaller than older jumps. |
Well. The PC is doing fine with 500-600GB/s of bandwidth before compression comes into play for 4k gaming... That is on top of dramatic increases in visual fidelity over the consoles.
I think engines will continue to rely on dynamic resolution implementations next gen... And various forms of frame reconstruction to get the best bang-for-buck visual presentation.
| CrazyGPU said: 5- Well yes, as I said many times, the CPU will be much better and evolution in graphics will continue to be progressive. I don´t agree with 6 gen though. I think from PS2 to PS3 the jump was considerable and more impactfull than from PS3 to PS4. |
Initially the jump from Playstation 2 to Playstation 3 was pretty basic. Heck, most of the Playstation 3's initial E3 was full of up-rezzed PS2 games essentially.
The jump from Xbox to Xbox 360 was even smaller as the Original Xbox was already pushing out games with full pixel shader effects and some titles were in High Definition.
At the end of the day though, I doubt we will agree about next gen being a substantial jump, efficiency has come a long way since the consoles launched in 2013... And those techniques will come into their own at some point next generation.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
