New Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night Trailer looks great

[Chazore]

mZuzek said:

Yikes. This is a whole new level of taking it personally.

I don't see how I was being dishonest... if anything, I should have a better idea of how honest I am than you do. Look, I never said "practice always makes one perfect", and I don't believe that for a second, because nothing can ever be perfect. Practice does usually make one better though, but not always. I agree that artists can get worse at what they do despite continuing to work on their craft - and sometimes this isn't just down to taste, sometimes it's quite an objective drop in quality that could happen for several different reasons, such as: 1. they started caring more about the money than the art; 2. they want to simplify their work to require less effort; 3. they're out of ideas but continue to pull shit out because it's a "responsibility"; 4. they tried doing something new, but aren't as good at it; and more.

Yes, taste is a thing and so are styles, and often the quality of things can't really be compared objectively when you're always going to be biased one way. But it is important to recognize your bias and to recognize when it affects your opinion more than a critical view. Sometimes, there are things out there with issues you're willing to overlook in favor of your own personal taste, and that's fine. Personally, I like all of Muse's last 3 albums for example, but I can recognize that it's just my personal bias and I'm not gonna argue with anyone about those albums not being worse than their previous output, because I know they are and I just choose to be okay with that. Star Fox Zero is ranked rather high among my favorite ever games for example, despite a lot of people saying it's a bad game - but I'm not blind to reality, I know it's a deeply flawed game, and some of those flaws annoyed me too, but ultimately I just decided to overlook them because I wanted to enjoy it. That's bias, and it's okay to have it. Everyone does. But to say everything in art is entirely subjective and there is nothing that defines quality other than personal preference is like saying that these are as good as each other.

Not really, I just dislike dishonesty, you can point and voice that out without "taking it personally". It also makes for a bad opening argument point when you put it like that as well.

Mmn, being more honest than me, and I'm the one taking it personally?. 

No, but people who always mutter "practice makes perfect" will continue uttering it until they get the results they want, ergo it's implied that said person will always reach perfection via practicing at any time, because "keep on practicing, just keep at it for all of eternity". 

Going from a fully fledged art to stick figurines, yes, that would be an objective drop in quality, without a doubt, but that becomes an example, not the rule.

Those reasons listed are exactly why some artists seek a more simpler style, or one that simply cuts down on the time required to craft, yet also charging that bit more (I know this because I've been watching one of them for years now, with him charging for a single YCH for a whopping 5k alone, no edits, no input, just your character).

Of course we can't, because as humans we are biased to the core. We try to claim that justice is objective, when inr eality, someone who does weed goes away for longer than someone who's murdered 1-3 people, how can that ever be considered objective justice?. Justice, like many things in life are entirely subjective, depending on how you look at judging things/people. 

See, when you're willing to overlook issues for your own tastes, that's when things start to cloud your general judgement. I see this with the Crackdown thread, all over the net and twitter, "it's fine to spend 5 years to release a game as half arsed as that, keep on doing it etc". When you do not tell an artists what they are doing can be improved, or simply offering your own critique, they will never strive to improve themselves and remain complacent. This also goes for companies like MS.

As for that last part, no I'll have to disagree there, because one was a piece from centuries ago, vs a cleaning lady who ruined the piece with a chemical spray, which ended up smudging the entire painting as a result. She wasn't an artist, nor classed as one and certainly not being the sole creator of that piece. There is a big difference right there between that lady ruining a dead artists piece, and as veteran dev working on the same game, that no other person is going to intervene with and "smudge" by accident. 

Again, saying it's not entirely subjective means Mona Lisa>everything else, and that simply isn't the case, it will never be the case because we've seen this occurring for centuries now. Different people love, like and value/rate objects and people at different levels. We do not all value the same objects/people under a single, objective standard, where absolutely everyone agrees and no bias is injected (because that would be an impossibility as we're all biased by nature anyway).