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DonFerrari said: Not the norm. Indies won't be normally reviewing and selling higher than the AAA games.
Reasons to buy Nintendo console are Nintendo games... do you want to compare the total revenue on SW sold by Nintendo on Switch will all Indies combined? It may become very clear to you that it isn't Indies that are selling Switches, it's Switch that is selling Indies. Even more because if they wanted to play Indies and aren't new to gaming they would already have a PC, PS4 or X1 to play their Indies on. Will you encompass Hellblade budget and "indie status" together with Celeste? You brought Star Citizen, a game that is yet to release after several years, have potential to be vaporware, nick and dime to hell with the selling of the "special space ships" as good example of financing? But sure your point will have relevance when a self funded or crowd funded game releases as good as RDR2 or GoW. What kudos should I give and I'm not even pissing on PC. I'm just pointing the very obvious that on PC since there isn't stewardship and no party that would directly benefit over others by pushing the sales of the platform you won't have games that would launch without commitment to make profit directly. Sony was ok launching 6 of 10 games not profitable on PS3 because they wanted to push the platform and give it diversity. Which third party or PC HW manufacturer do the same? Nope, I have no issue with it. If they find someone to fund them great, if that game is exclusive to PC great for PC owners. What I have pointed to you and you try to reverse is that you are the one that can't accept it not releasing on PC. I can even smell you being pissed with Sony and Nintendo developed games not launching on PC and you either missing or pretending to not care and not like. You accuse me of hating PC (while I just don't get interested on it for two reasons, they are much more expensive to buy in my country compared to a gaming consoles that would perform similarly and most of the games I'm really passionate about are exclusives to Sony and I won't wait 5 years into the gen to have a good emulator to play them) but I haven't ever seem you praising Sony or any game they released. Sure microtransactions don't have relation to GOTY, but we have seem games getting their score and GOTY chances smashed by anti-consumer and MTX practices in full flegged and paid games. I know 1st parties want it exclusive, and that is the reason they accept to not turn a profit on the game itself because they expect it to attract attention and sell HW. That same intention 3rd parties wouldn't have. Sure you have your right to prefer something. So your hate is exclusively geared towards Sony? And you owning Nintendo HH or Switch and X360 doesn't make you any less defensive of PC. Because your posts show exactly you defending PC and all games releasing on PC whenever there is a possibility for it. Just see this thread and how triggered you got at suggestion that a platform holder could finance Bungie or that most of the AAA and high budget games get more focus on consoles.
So Chazore are you wanting us to believe someone would build a PC with power much over X1X, costing some couple thousand dolars, to play Indie games that would run fine on something 5 to 10 times cheaper? Sure thing. It is incredible rare, you would count on the fingers of your hand indies that sell over 10M and got GOTY award, and if Indies is what you like you would probably remember them all.
Yep, any Indie (or even most Nintendo exclusives) if reviewed on same criterea would lose some points. When reviewer go and discount points for tearing, stuttering and whatnot, or for the graphics not being pristine, sound not fully developed, etc and you can clearly see that those games they gave good score being Indie, HH or whatnot with caveats "that is good for that platform, or for that budget" you can certainly see that they aren't using the same ruler.
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1. Yes, yes they have. Tell me when GoW sells as much as Minecraft does in a year or two, I'll wait, or better yet, another game from a "AAA" devloper like FN, tell me when it sells as much as a game like that. There's even games like the Binding of Issac, PoE, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, Ark, Rust, Rocket league, Robotcraft, Terraria and PuB, all of them having millions of players playing said games. A decade and a half ago, you'd be seeing a few hundred thousand, up to a possible 1-2m, but now we're seeing up to 10+m players playing these indie games, so yes, they are now becoming the norm, whether you like it or not.
2. No, it's not just for Nintendo games. That's your narrow minded viewpoint of "how one should buy a console". Do you want to compare Switch indie games and how they are outselling PS4 alone?, let alone PC and X1, and that's telling mate, very telling (even then, bringing software sales data into this topic would derail it). There are people like me, who game on PC and play indies on it, as well as double dipping to play them on the go with the Switch.
3.Like it or not, Hellblade is AA, not AAA. Trying to separate an indie studio from one another is just frivolous.
"You brought Star Citizen"?. I haven't *bought* Star Citizen, because I'm done buying early access games, and games still in development. I am however *watching* Star Citizen, a game that's still in development (you know, like a certain RDR game was for around a near 10 years). It hasn't become vaporware though. The naysayers, the type that absolutely hate the game and don't want anything to do with it scream vaporware, as well as the incredibly impatient (Are we supposed to award and praise being impatient these days?. I seriously hope not, because we have that Miyamoto saying if I recall correctly). People finance the game via various means, one way the KS pitch, the others are buying the game, optionally buying the ships (the devs have stated there will be other ways of buying the ships when the game launches). Ahh, see you're comparing a console game to a PC designed one. If anything it'll be held against what Crysis has done, and Book of the Dead, rather than a console exclusive, designed only for one system. Maybe compare the game to the same system it's on?. The tech that SC has alone surpasses what is in GoW (Can I place any item where I want and move in a vehicle at light speed, all in real time with friends moving around at the same time?).
4. If you weren't, you'd be pointing out some pros, but you hardly ever do mate. You're always one to point out it's shortcomings, it being "lesser" than "GoW" or "RDR2", just because it doesn't make what *you* want, rather than what others are buying. I'll use an example from my own pov. I think Ubisoft is absolute gutter trash because they slap on 4 layers of DRM, pull over console parity with the PC version (Creed Origin's texture detail for example) and ask for a higher price, while also demanding you install and use Uplay, even if you purchase it from Steam. On top of that, their games are seemingly "demanding", yet they look practically alike when compared to the current gen versions, which alone makes zero sense and screams a lack of optimization, but according to some of you on here, they are Gospel, despite what they do. I know they definitely have issues to sort out, they make games that clearly do not appeal to me anymore, and that's fine. In the end I'd rather support someone that doesn't seek to gimp me, and brand me as a "pirate" despite having bought all my games via Steam, GoG, Battle.net and Origin.
PC doesn't need an "owner", not everything in life needs an "owner" in order to be good or show greatness. PC is an open platform, and it has shown numerous times that it can be good at what it does in it's own ways. It doesn't need millions of dollars splurged on silly subway ads, or wasting hundreds of dollars worth of paint on the side of building, which then needs more money to scrub it off. PC has it's own ways of advertising games, and it does so via the internet, in which billions of people use on a daily basis.
People commit to the platform because they want to, because they see something there that others do not. Why do you think anyone releases games on PC to this day?. DO you honestly think that consoles and PC are exactly the same, in terms of operation and design?, because one is a closed off box owned by a corporation, while the other is an open market that has hundreds of vendors selling various parts, none of which own run any game studios, because the platform has no first party owner.
5.No, you seem to misunderstand the way I look at exclusivity. I see one as being a legit reason as to why something has to be exclusive, vs another that is done in such a way from a party member directly doing something to claim said exclusivity. See a game being exclusive to PC is either via peripheral or hardware constraints. There is zero reason for someone on PC to "buy it" for the platform, as the platform has no first party owner (not even Epic is doing this, as said games they buy and lock to their storefront are also available on consoles), but on consoles you need to sell a plastic box, so to do that you need to create your own reasons to sell said box, but these days it's become more and more common to simply buy up IP's that exist on other platforms, and then locking them down to your box, which comes off as being illegitimate to me, because they didn't create that IP, they simply want to hold onto it to sell their box, rather than creating their own. Why do you think PC gamers get antsy when MS buys up PC IP's?. Do you think MS is going to only develop just for PC?, no, they want to keep at it with the Xbox, and they'll do whatever it takes.
"I can smell you being pissed", I wouldn't pull a petulant move like that if I were you, because you know exactly where jabbing like that goes. Why would I "pretend" not to care, when I've told you before that I own multiple systems, and buy what *I* like on said systems. I've bought a myriad of Pokemon and Zelda games on Nintendo devices for years. I've seen people emulate BotW on PC, but I've not sought myself to go and emulate it, because I like playing it on the go. When Nintendo releases a better version of the Switch, or a new console, that can allow BotW to achieve more frames/visual upgrades, I would play it on said system as well, why do you think I bought an N3DS? (please answer this, no dodging either, because I really want to know your direct, and simple answer to this).
If you aren't "interested" in the platform, then maybe you should simply not talk about it, or constantly pull out shortcomings out the arse?, just a thought (Please, no mirror retort. They are lazy and impractical). Why do I have to praise Sony?. Do you see me talking about them in your discussion board?. Sony is a company, not an eco-system, not an open platform. Sony is a company that happens to sell one console type, the other two being MS and Nintendo,m also selling their own console types, but not one platform running one console, completely different from PC.
The last thing I want, is a console I've no interest in, hampering with a platform I game on, that's when you'll see my ire, because I just want the best possible experience on the platform I've invested into over the years. Whenever I hear of console parity, I just roll my eyes and wonder as to why I'm the one to be screwed over, especially since I'm the one who invested into higher end hw. Do you think that is legitimately deserved and fair or something?. Do you think objectively speaking, that anyone who dares invest in higher end hw, be completely fucked over by another platform?.
6. Getting "smashed" by other good games doesn't really matter if they have MT's or not. I think FN is absolute crap, yet millions upon millions of gamers out there think the complete opposite, and make Tencent/Epic billions, if it wins it wins. I hate MT's just as much as you do, but no force on earth is going to let me stop them from winning anything, it's a numbers game dude. Voting with your wallet only ever works if the side you're on supports the notion you do, if not then you lose out. I've voted against Ubisoft countless times, yet they are still breathing, still making 4 layer DRM games that cost a lot, demand far more hw power and look less idealistic for the hw demands, and thus I lose that round, because I'm not a part of the bigger crowd that made that choice. One person or 5 voting makes zero difference, not unless it inspires more people to do the same, which rarely happens.
Third parties don't need to have those intentions, because they don't own said systems. They sell more because they want more. They want to reach as many as humanly possible, just look at how many times Skyrim alone has been ported, or the old DOOM games (both via companies and via fans). First parties are going to want it that way because they need to make their boxes looking different and lucrative.
7. Of course I can, just like you and Eva have when it comes to AAA games and indie ones.
8. Nope, my "hate" (More like disagreement) is toward a myriad of companies and studios, not just Sony. I disagree with how EA has been handing it's infrastructure, it's entire business ethic and planning, just like I disagreed with Sony and their role of refusing to not employ crossplay with multiple games, while 3 other parties out there were employing it for a while now. I'm not one to agree with how Konami has handled their staff, their IP's and generally how they view their consumers (akin to "whales").
No, see I've owned multiple systems before, but I have a core preference, just like you owned up to me within this same discussion. There is a difference between owning multiple systems (trying things out) and having a core preference (liking a particular thing). I "defend" PC gaming because it's always being ragged on via stupid myths and the usual gunk that gets tossed it's way (Like "it's a platform with garbage shovelware and MMO's/Mobas" when it really isn't, or how about the usual "PC gaming is dead again" each time a new console gen starts?). It's always been this way, even before it become a prominent platform, the wars which stemmed from the console ones (which still go on to this day and should honestly end).
I'd like for said non first party games to release on PC, because hey, that's what I game on, that's where I prefer to game, and that also happens to be the same platform that makes our games and hosts gamers in the hundred+ million out there. Why would a dev want less money in the long run?. Why would they want to focus only on short term sales, rather than nice long tail sales?. You are leaving money on the table when you leave out PC, like it or not. You can clearly see some devs even trying their best to spruce up ports to PC, or same day PC versions ith console releases in tow (The DoA studio recently points this out for their PC version commitment, so surely there is a reason they are pulling out all the stops).
"Just see this thread and how triggered you got"
Again, I honestly don't see there being a need to being this direct with jabbing, it solves nothing and gets us nowhere.
There is a focus of AAA games on PC and consoles, so I'm not sure what idea you're getting from that. I'd love to see more third parties funding games, because then we'd all be able to play said games, rather than just one party (unless you know, said system doesn't support higher end hw and the peripherals needed, because that's on your fave companies to sort that out, not me, not PC gaming).
I can imagine China supporting more games and building their own as time goes on, so you best be prepared for their version of competition.
9. Trust you to make use of an old internet Minecraft meme, but hey, that's what I've come to expect of you by now. Also, the price argument?, how droll and predictable.
Unlike you, I can actually remember the indie games I've played, as well as the ones I listed above, that millions of other gamers plat. You just don't like indie games doing or selling well, that you refuse to admit your face narrow minded budget types are either being horrendously mangled to death by either always online, MT's or cancelled deals. Face it, there is more dire going on with the AAA industry than one or or 8 people in a flat in London, cobbling together one game.
Yeah, indie games lose points automatically to you two, because you seem to hold this narrow minded belief that indie games are trash and don't contain beauty of their own. You lack clarity, both of you. You also lack vision. Looking at a demo like Book of the Dead shows what you can accomplish, not on consoles, but on higher end hw, indies also show what you can do with pixel art, art direction and music, all on a smaller budget. Art is beautiful, not childish fantasies for one style alone. Unlike you two, I actually appreciate art in many forms, be it 2D, 3D, B&W or static, even watercolor (look at my avatar for example. That artist draws so many adorable and beautifully drawn pieces).
AAA games are supposed to be AAA, not AA or indie. You cannot tell me with a straight face, that both are equals, because they most certainly aren't, by fact. Both types have varying budgets, teams,s cope and manpower, as well as technologies at their disposal. Those with the highest of all should never screw up, why on earth would you excuse and allow them to?, they are touting "greatness" and yet it isn't what was displayed on the tin when it's pointed out, so why excuse that?. AAA games have zero room to trip up with their talk of big games. Don't tell me you can talk big and then excuse yourself like nothing happened, because that's downright asinine.
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