Chazore said:
1. Exceptions?. No, those aren't exceptions, those are the norm now. Indie games have been here since gaming began, only there was a period where they drastically shrank and become "unpopular" for a time, but now they are back and stronger and more in number than ever before. Not the norm. Indies won't be normally reviewing and selling higher than the AAA games. 2. Of course they do, because it's on a device that's still relatively new and seemingly having less total users than the other two consoles, yet their games are selling far more on that system than the other two combined, sometimes even with PC thrown in as well, and that speaks volumes. People have all sorts of reasons to buy a Switch you know, it's not "AAA or bust" mentality. Reasons to buy Nintendo console are Nintendo games... do you want to compare the total revenue on SW sold by Nintendo on Switch will all Indies combined? It may become very clear to you that it isn't Indies that are selling Switches, it's Switch that is selling Indies. Even more because if they wanted to play Indies and aren't new to gaming they would already have a PC, PS4 or X1 to play their Indies on. 3. No, not really. You're the one pulling one by limiting it to a spectrum you think holds a majoritarian sway over the entire industry. I'm not even "defending" PC gaming at this point, I'm actually trying to talk about indie games, which you probably haven't noticed us talking about for a while now. Don't know why talking about good indie games needs to count somehow as "defending" PC gaming. We already know about the budget, and Hellblade has shown that it doesn't need to be blown to insane lengths, like with GTA V and RDR2. I think you're just trying to limit a budgeted game to being a console exclusive, and yet you accuse me of "£defending" PC gaming, yet you're defending some imaginary "right" to have something locked to a closed off box. I can understand if said closed off box had high end hw, had a control scheme that wasn't accessible to multiple platforms, but consoles don't have that route to take. They also don't make your games either. Will you encompass Hellblade budget and "indie status" together with Celeste? "Since you can't counter it"?. It's been countered hundreds of times before, it's called self funding, consumer funded, third party funded, and hell, as Bungie have shown us, outside of the industry funded. It's been proven time and time again that multiple games can be funded and on various levels, hell Star Citizen is still being worked on and it's been able to amass an insane amount of funding, both from consumers and other parties. It's not some bullshit warped reasoning of "Oh, consoles are the only thing that can ever fund AAA, so they deserve to be exclusive". You brought Star Citizen, a game that is yet to release after several years, have potential to be vaporware, nick and dime to hell with the selling of the "special space ships" as good example of financing? But sure your point will have relevance when a self funded or crowd funded game releases as good as RDR2 or GoW. Dude, you hate on PC by showing it. You talk so low about the platform, I haven't seen you once giving good kudos to the platform at all, even though that platform makes your damn games. You owe everything to the computer making your console and games possible, as without it, we'd have nothing. If you give kudos now, it's only because I've pointed it out, even if you so much as have to "recollect" a mention from years prior, because it's only had to be brought up because I've pointed it out. If you never "hated", you'd mention it without me having to tell you, that's how it works. What kudos should I give and I'm not even pissing on PC. I'm just pointing the very obvious that on PC since there isn't stewardship and no party that would directly benefit over others by pushing the sales of the platform you won't have games that would launch without commitment to make profit directly. Sony was ok launching 6 of 10 games not profitable on PS3 because they wanted to push the platform and give it diversity. Which third party or PC HW manufacturer do the same? You seem to have a problem with an outside source funding Bungie, because it's proven that we don't need any of the big 3 to make a game possible, even for AAA or AA. You seem to have a fear of being denied something to be made exclusive to you though. I on the other hand, do not mind my games going to other systems. Nope, I have no issue with it. If they find someone to fund them great, if that game is exclusive to PC great for PC owners. What I have pointed to you and you try to reverse is that you are the one that can't accept it not releasing on PC. I can even smell you being pissed with Sony and Nintendo developed games not launching on PC and you either missing or pretending to not care and not like. You accuse me of hating PC (while I just don't get interested on it for two reasons, they are much more expensive to buy in my country compared to a gaming consoles that would perform similarly and most of the games I'm really passionate about are exclusives to Sony and I won't wait 5 years into the gen to have a good emulator to play them) but I haven't ever seem you praising Sony or any game they released. 4. No, but the way you push this narrative that it needs "big funding" makes it awfully close to "we need the big 3, because they always know when and how to lock it to their box", and you know full well that not all 3rd parties pull that, because they want as much money as possible, and that isn't always found by locking it to one box, ergo, 1st parties want it exclusive. Not sure what anti-consumer practices have to do with GOTY awards or funding my dude. Micro trans are here to stay, and they are employed by many, many devs/studios by now. China can fund what it wants, you have zero say on what they can and cannot do, and as much as I'm not a fan of China's ethic, I'd rather they fund for something, than it being any of the big 3. I'd rather an emerging market give the first party a massive run for their money, because competition is good remember?. Sure microtransactions don't have relation to GOTY, but we have seem games getting their score and GOTY chances smashed by anti-consumer and MTX practices in full flegged and paid games. I know 1st parties want it exclusive, and that is the reason they accept to not turn a profit on the game itself because they expect it to attract attention and sell HW. That same intention 3rd parties wouldn't have. 5. Yes, believe it or not, indie games can hold a lot over AAA games. I still find Minecraft and it's possibilities as being far better than some crappy scripted CGI events, or narrow corridor areas. Sure you have your right to prefer something. 6. Dude, you're playing the card so easily right now. Why not knock it off for a change?. I own a Switch, 3DS, N3DS and a 360 you know. So your hate is exclusively geared towards Sony? And you owning Nintendo HH or Switch and X360 doesn't make you any less defensive of PC. Because your posts show exactly you defending PC and all games releasing on PC whenever there is a possibility for it. Just see this thread and how triggered you got at suggestion that a platform holder could finance Bungie or that most of the AAA and high budget games get more focus on consoles. |
Chazore said:
Do tell, since we like to use the Steam survey as the gospel of *all* PC hardware (when I know, not sure if you do, that it isn't actually true), what do they build a PC for?. Surely not "just AAA games"?. What about games like KCD, you know, a game that was made by a studio that isn't regarded as being AAA?. What about Subnautica?, or games that can be modded, that are both indie and AA/AAA?. I think indie games should be considered up for GOTY. It should never be limited to "AAA" games, that's just a narrow minded and arrogant way of looking at things. It's not incredibly rare though. We get all sorts of indie games that either sell well or turn heads. When I said "lightning in a bottle" iI meant a good combo that really, and I mean really turned heads, not "once in a blue moon". Each year we manage to get a good indie game or more. Maybe not to you, but to thousands if not millions of other gamers worldwide. No, not downplaying indies, but making them appear far less important and popular, and making AAA seem more popular and important, thus making them more prominent over indie games, despite evidence pointing to the opposite. Indie games achieve greatness as well, but AAA's in recent years have shown that they aren't always AAA, maybe in budget, but lacking premium pristine quality and obviously having to rely on what indie devs have had to over the years, even mobile games. |
So Chazore are you wanting us to believe someone would build a PC with power much over X1X, costing some couple thousand dolars, to play Indie games that would run fine on something 5 to 10 times cheaper? Sure thing.
It is incredible rare, you would count on the fingers of your hand indies that sell over 10M and got GOTY award, and if Indies is what you like you would probably remember them all.
eva01beserk said:
Dude stop with the straw man. Specially the building pc thing. WHere the hell did that come from? I think you can take any argument about anything and turn it into an anti pc thing. I will give you one thing in that I should not have said that indies should not be considered for GOTY. I just think when an indie is being considered for GOTY, reviewers seem to ignore a bunch of limitation. Like Big AAA get bombarded when they have a super short story, no story, or just crappy. Indies get a pass and they say, look how great the story was for such a small studio. Things like features, just look a pubg, it got praised to hell and all it had was battle royal with a single map. Imagine if Battlefield or COD came out like that. Call of duty received hell for ditching the single player story. Fallout gets dumped on for looking the same as previous entrys, but indies can be 2d an everybody looses their mind(insert joker meme here). Im just saying indies have to get a pass on so many things in consideration for their budget and/or size while AAA dont. If they are as great they should be scrutinized like all other games. |
Yep, any Indie (or even most Nintendo exclusives) if reviewed on same criterea would lose some points. When reviewer go and discount points for tearing, stuttering and whatnot, or for the graphics not being pristine, sound not fully developed, etc and you can clearly see that those games they gave good score being Indie, HH or whatnot with caveats "that is good for that platform, or for that budget" you can certainly see that they aren't using the same ruler.
User moderated - Bristow9091
Last edited by Bristow9091 - on 18 January 2019
duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363
Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994
Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."
