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| AngryLittleAlchemist said: So, to give what most likely will be my final thoughts ... I stopped playing the game for hours and hours about 2 days ago (so like the 8th). That's also the day I completed the Epilogue campaign too. The past 2 days it's only been like 2 hours per day. Which is still good all things considered. I expected even more content in this game. That's absolutely me being ridiculous and selfish, but being at 85% completion after about 80 hours kind of surprised me, especially because most of what's left is just collectibles. If you didn't include those, I'd probably be done with 97% of the meaningful content (some of which is locked behind certain chapters that I can't go back and do - there's a home robbery called "Rocky Seven" that's infamously unlocked around Chapter 2 but only playable at Chapter 5 or 6 and ONLY that one chapter). That's even including the epilogue as "meaningful content", which while it's a very good part of the game, I also think that it's just unnecessary enough that people not invested in the original game might get a little bored. I know that there were many moments in it that were brilliant and among the better post-game content I've seen, but I also think making the player feel restricted after doing such a lengthy campaign had some side effects (although again it was great post-game content and the last mission was amazing). I guess I'm just used to hearing about how every open world game is hundreds of hours long ... apparently BOTW is about 60-70 hours more for full completion compared to Red Dead, same with The Witcher 3. How much of that is up to the same quality as Red Dead is questionable, I know BOTW has things like Korok seeds that can lengthen the journey (so does Red Dead just to a lesser scale), but I do know that The Witcher 3 is famous for a heavy amount of meaningful content, and from the 15 hours I've played that seems to be the case. Maybe the reason I feel this way is because Red Dead's campaign is a good like 40-50% of the time spent completing it, whereas it seems like in other open world games you spend more time doing your own shit and fucking around, so when you're finally done with all the story, assuming you've already spent a decent amount of time doing side activities, you'll mostly be finished. When they include the multiplayer missions that will be even more though so I suppose I'm just spoiled ... heh, wanting more can never be a bad thing though I think the worst decision they made for this game, far and away, is the "honor" system. I just think it's a complete waste of time on the developer's and players part. It feels like the system is in this awkward place of being prominent enough to be annoying but also not developed enough to really have a positive impact on your experience. Red Dead Redemption 2 may some have RPG mechanics, but it's not an RPG. As far as I know, there isn't a single mission that's locked based on the honor system. You do get bonuses around the world - but these bonuses are infuriating, because even long after the game's been out, as far as we know there's only one bonus for having negative honor rank ... and it's so unsubstantial. There's basically no reason to have bad honor whatsoever. The good honor is massively favored and there's some benefits that I didn't even know where included (like unlocking new outfits). Why? This just pigeon holes players into playing one specific way. Not only that, the honor system makes no sense. It's supposed to be based around people's perception of you, which sounds cool, but then you kill people in the middle of nowhere, no one sees you, and you get negative honor. What? It also feels counter-intuitive in a Rockstar game to have a bounty system and a honor system at the same time. All around, clearing a bounty will make 99% of people forgive you, so what's the point? You might get more aggressive NPCs but that's it .. there's almost no difference and yet the punishments are pretty severe on paper. The worst part is that it sometimes seems random. Killing a bad guy is good but robbing their corpse isn't? Why does it even matter if you rob ANY corpse if it's already dead? It would be one thing if you just go to a graveyard and rob someone's corpse in front of a crowd, it's another if someone you've already killed is being looted in the middle of nowhere. And if they wanted to make it realistic ... why does doing all the bad missions for the campaign not give you negative honor? Massacring tons and tons of people would make you more infamous than anything you could possibly do in free roam. I can't remember, but I also think it's considered acceptable to kill the drivers and guards of the wagons carrying prisoners without getting negative honor. And if it's not ... that's telling the player "don't unlock this content". It's so half assed yet annoying at the same time. It just feels like a weight on your shoulder that shouldn't be there ... Getting negative honor basically means being punished for having fun, while positive honor means getting rewarded for being bored. As for the bounty system, it's honestly not that bad at all and i'm surprised how many people here have disliked it more as they continue to play. I found it got less annoying. In fact it might just be the best system they've made yet (the one in GTA is perfectly suitable for that game but it's not detailed enough to work for something as immersive as Red Dead). If you have a mask on and you aren't in a city, you'll get away with 99% of shit if no one is near by. If someone is near by and you have a mask on, you'll still get away with it as long as they aren't right near you. The investigating system allows you to get away with most things, although I have to say, when you first start playing seeing "Wanted" above it is really confusing. Wanted. Investigating. You w0t m8? It should really just say "investigating". That being said ... there is a part 2 to this of sorts. It's really hard to get away with stuff in cities. Which makes sense .. but it's frustrating when you go to a city to pay off your bounty, and you can't because there are police everywhere. As far as I know, you can't surrender either. You get killed for like $5. It's so stupid and whether or not this was a problem in RDR1 (I remember it being so), it should be fixed by now .. with mechanics considered more carefully. It's especially stupid when you steal a prison wagon while there is no law in the middle of plains but when you get the seemingly smart idea of taking the prison wagon away form the investigation area (because you had to murder the driver and guard) all the sudden the Wanted system automatically locks onto you and everyone knows who is guilty even though you're in the middle of nowhere with no one around! I don't expect RDR to be GTA at all. But this is just being anal and frustrating. Luckily for 90% of the map this isn't an issue. There's a lot of positives to say about this game. The mission design is not really one of them. It's pretty bad, even if the story and voice acting is compelling. Having so many shoot outs ruins what makes them iconic in Westerns. It's pulling out your secret weapon too soon .. many times over and over again. Same with the train robbery. Also pretty much the entirety of Chapter 3 is useless. This took me very long to write so I'm going to stop here. Good game but as I give more time for my opinion to settle it gets worse. |
Great post! Well written.
I'm actually starting to suspect a different outcome while keeping my honor at minimum. The game still tries to drive it up, I still didn't have any other choice for the final debts which drove my honor up a lot again yet instead of the deer visions I now have a black wolf for the visions and Arthur is hinting at plans to betray Dutch. Yes! Maybe the story can still be saved a little bit. It's just the post mission chat that's slightly different, missions themselves are exactly the same, same path, same outcome, no choices.
Since I'm currently being as bad as possible I was doing the thief challenges as well. Robbing 4 stores in the same day is a lot of running. Damn those magic hands free cellphones. Stick up a shop and the shopkeeper telepathically alerts the authorities, run to next town to rob the next shop. And it's repetitive, first I had rob 2 stage coaches, next currently is rob 3 coaches in a single day, bleh. Can never find them when you want them. And why can I only crack safes in story missions, can't interact with them on trains or in the train station or in the back room at the doctors. I know Arthur can open these things.
About the bounty system. I have a bounty in every region now, highest in Hannover over $1200 bounty. I can still go into town no problem (just wait for lock down to disappear if a town gets locked) and bounty hunters are pretty rare. The chance to get killed by wolves is still 10 times higher...
While replaying story missions I went for a rush approach instead of my normal careful approach. That works a lot better, just run ahead and let the others catch up. That way they don't get killed and you trigger the next part already anyway. I also found a lot more creative ways to fail skip through missions. It is so strictly scripted, the game can't adjust at all to doing things even slightly differently. Failed for abandoning the battle while trying to escape, escaped too early lol.
Anyway, despite being wanted everywhere the game still pretty much plays the same. Except my wife now finds it way too violent. Why did you shoot that shopkeeper in the face he was begging for his life. Nuh uh, he was only pretending while dialing 911 behind his back, crime reported just popped up.
