Runa216 said:
I don't think anyone in this thread has been more wrong than you right here during this post. Like, it would take 5x what you wrote just to explain how misguided you are, how wrong you are, and how thoroughly you miss the point. Like, it's not irony when people argue, nobody says 'but science' as a sort of counter expecting that to be enough on its own (That's not how science works), science does come up but it's always with methods of explaining or inquiring with more precision, scientists don't 'have no clue whatsoever', and even when there's a question that they don't know the answer to they don't make shit up to satisfy their theories - again, that's not how science works. You're misusing the term 'atheist' again as someone who vehemently claims to know there is no god instead of simply not believing in god (this is where much of your argument falls to shit if it hadn't already). Your perspective is irrelevant when it comes to what is and what isn't. Putting atheists on the same level of creationists is foolish because one relies on faith, the other relies on the scientific method, two things that are, by their very definition, on opposite ends of the spectrum of knowledge and understanding. Atheists/scientists can't be extremists by their very nature, as they don't have a 'cause' to fight for but instead, are guided by the advancement of knowledge and understanding instead of faith or belief. The problem is that scientists/atheists ARE interested in a discussion but they're demanding more proof on your behalf than you can provide so it's just easier for you to act like you're the innocent one being attacked than actually respond. And then you finish by saying we 'want to propagate our belief and convince others that it is the only truth.' This is where I came to say you were so wrong that it hurts. Because Scientists and atheists - at least none that I've seen and none in this thread - don't want to propagate anything, they are asking questions, demanding answers probing for more details, and putting faith up to reasonable scrutiny. Science is not a belief, it is a process that requires rigorous testing, the ability to replicate results, and the ability to communicate those results with others so that nonbiased third parties can test the results and ensure the tests and established facts are correct. No scientist goes in saying 'this is what I want to prove and I will do literally anything to convince myself and others', becuase that is the opposite of science, and as such, that is very similar to what atheists feel about God or religion in general. It's never 'I am 100% sure of the fact that there is no god", it's always "There absolutely no evidence in thousands of years that supports the existence of god." just like how scientists don't say "I will devise tests to prove my hypothesis", they say "Here is my hypothesis, I think it is correct and will now devise a test to check and see if it is true; if it is true, then great! If not, that means I've LEARNED SOMETHING and thus have advanced my knowledge!" You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference of faith and knowledge and are unwilling to accept that one is backed by evidence and tests and thousands of the smartest people in the world and the other, by its very nature, is the exact opposite of that. You're equating faith with facts, and that is why you fail to understand how wrong you are about the nature of atheism and the nature of scientific studies. As long as you continue to falsely equate the two, you can never be taken seriously. Religion and science are not equals when it comes to intellectual debate. The scientific method is as far removed and superior to faith as it can possibly be, and the fact that you genuinely seem to think that scientists and by extension atheists apply the same fanatical pushing of belief that religions do is enough to completely discredit you. It is astounding how people can twist reality so much that they feel that faith in religion is the same as 'faith in the scientific method'. It's a concept so foolish I can't even think of a metaphor to describe it because it is its own example of how foolish it is. |
No, it is you who is completely missing the point, completely ignoring what was written and what i responded to, not addressing my arguments directly (as usual).
"It is astounding how people can twist reality so much that they feel that faith in religion is the same as 'faith in the scientific method'."
Then why the fudge are you asking someone to prove what he believes in? It is called belief, indeed it is not a scientific theory. You throw them both in the same basket. You are the one who is mixing things up.
Why dont you "believe" in anything beyond your perception? Not because there is no evidence, it is because you chose to. If there would be sound evidence for what i believe in than i wouldnt have to guess, than i would know for certain.
" Because Scientists and atheists - at least none that I've seen and none in this thread - don't want to propagate anything"
Then why are we having this off topic debate, users (incl. a mod) approaching aggressively others who simply make a brief on topic comment?
Asking questions? Reminds me off 911 CT debates. "O we are just asking questions, no hidden agenda, totally innocently, nothing subtextual"
Sounds as hypocritcical and pretentious as a televangelist.
" they are asking questions, demanding answers probing for more details, and putting faith up to reasonable scrutiny. "
Sure. This thread and the people involved are appropriate conditions to dabble in this meaningless, unreasonable endeavour of yours.
Do you honestly believe anyone is qualified and up to the task? You think you can validate evidence?
I attempted to present details to what i believe in, what i suspect. I asked a user a question. Right away it was misunderstood. I followed up, and tried clearify, but the user was completely clueless of what i was gibberishing about. But you think you can decipher a divine message when displayed infront of you? You have a hard time understanding what goes on in your little world and you think you have what it takes to rely on others to find Waldo? Hundred thousands of years of humanity, yet they still havent figured out where the universe comes from and where it goes? Do you know? I have an idea... thanks to none other than sssscience. Yes, i can fairly certainly say, i believe in something "because of science".
"and the fact that you genuinely seem to think that scientists and by extension atheists apply the same fanatical pushing of belief that religions do is enough to completely discredit you. "
Yawell, i did not say such thing.
What i said was: "in the same range as creationists and other dead end minded extremists."
Nowhere did i say anti-theists had the opportunity to equally crusade as other religions. Just that they are like-deadend-minded, close minded, ignorant, trapped in their limited wordly minds. I didnt include scientists. That was your preset mindset fabulating.
Hunting Season is done...
