| Zoombael said: To the first quote: Atheism in the widest (and seldomly used) sense, but that isnt the position the atheists participating in this debate are representing, or is it? You want it to be looked at as the natural, unaltered, untainted state of mind, therefore superior to any kind of god-belief. That is why wrote: everything is "indoctrinated", and this does include your kind of atheism. |
That is the position I am taking as an Atheist... In this thread.
My position is not indoctrinated, all I ask for is evidence for Theists to backup their claims, that is it, that is rational, that is logical.
| Zoombael said: Nevertheless, even in the widest sence i dont deem Atheism the same as a "blank slate". |
I think you are making it out to be something it's not.
Atheism isn't a belief or disbelief in God, it is the default position.
| Zoombael said: Secondly: You completely missed the point. Exclude in the sense of having eliminated the possibility of existence of "divine power". Followed by an example of how incapable we actually still are... not being to figure out if there is life on the other side of Milkyway... or the moon Europa... |
None of which results in proving/disproving God exists.
Just because there is/isn't life on another planet doesn't mean that life on THIS planet was created by your God, you need to judge each claim on it's own basis.
| JWeinCom said: Most atheists I know, and pretty much all that I've seen in this topic, take atheist to simply mean not believing in a god. I would actually describe it as anyone who is not a theist. I would personally not consider babies, because I think for one to count they need to be capable of evaluating the idea. Otherwise we get to silly positions like a pig is an atheist. |
Many Theists aren't actually church-going or practicing. But we still lump them in as Theists because of their convictions.
Atheism is and I quote: Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of Deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
So yes, I would also class a pig as an Atheist... Because the term Atheism isn't just a binary label that is only applicable to those who disbelieve in a deity, but also includes those with zero belief as the entire concept is alien to them.
There are simply many different types of Atheists.
| JWeinCom said: I would consider someone who says "I don't know" as an atheist. Because anyone who does not believe that god exists, whether they are certain or not, is not a theist. And would therefore have to be an atheist, as those two categories form a true dichotomy. To sum it up, everyone capable of understanding the concept of god has to be a theist or an atheist. If they're not a theist, they're an atheist. |
I agree.
| WolfpackN64 said: Simple. The conclusion DOES follow the premises. The misunderstanding is that you need empirical proof for deductive argumentation. Deductive arguments are a form or argumentation. Just because other people doubt the validity of the conclusion it does not mean the argument is formally invalid. |
You are entirely correct.
The argument itself can be valid... But without empirical evidence to backup the argument... The result will be rendered irrelevant as we cannot ascertain it's truth.
| WolfpackN64 said: Simply put, what being would be able to cause it's own existance, along being eternal and immovable? |
For you to have an appropriate answer for that question, you will need an answer backed by evidence.
And it is okay to say "I don't know!"
With that in mind... There are particles which pop in and out of our reality, which means that something like the Big Bang could have done the same? (Although no evidence for that.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle
Science will keep trying to find the answer though, whilst the Bible continues to stick to false anti-scientific claims like the Earth forming before the Sun.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors#Planetary_formation
www.youtube.com/@Pemalite
