WolfpackN64 said:
setsunatenshi said:
1. You may disagree, but it's still true for both cases. You may cover your ears and ignore it, but that's your prerogative. I showed why both premises are false and even if you want to question the first one, the sheer fact that you conceded time existing only as the universe exists, it clearly shows the universe has no cause. It's really not something you can argue, sorry.
2. No, you haven't. Why would you think that was the case? A cause requires time preceding the event. Please show me a causality without a unit of time before? It's both logically and scientifically impossible. If you can't grasp that concept then I'm sorry for that but it's you, not me.
3. I won't even get into how exactly you thought you could jump from a universe with a cause to believing there's a guy in Rome that is infallible, yet changes his mind all the time. You're still that because you've been persuaded by others (hence the victim of your sociological context). Pretty sure if you were born in Japan 1000 years ago you wouldn't reach the logical conclusion Catholicism was the right religion lol
4. You can't dictate necessity, you must demonstrate it. Only the universe is necessary in this argument (as it is has no cause and marks the beginning of time), nothing else. You don't cause that which needs no cause ;)
5. Assertion with no evidence. You're trying to define some deity into existence, not show evidence of it's existence. That argument will only convince an already believer. If you have no problem believing X (whatever god you believe) has no cause, why would you struggle to believe the universe has no cause? At least the universe we all know exists, your god is only inside your imagination as far as I'm concerned.
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1&2. Brute-forcing the argument won't win you anything.
3. Maybe not, but does that matter? Circumstances vary for all of us.
4. Again, you can't just claim that
5. Did I ever assert this argument was deductive?
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1,2- argument is valid for anyone else to see. i won't force you to accept it but i saw no refutation
3- it maters in the sence you came to that conclusion based on societal pressure, not out of logic necessity and good arguments. and i'm sure you're as sure of your god as the peasants in old japan were of the 1000000 gods they held true. but i'm sure only yours is the right one :)
4- i showed logical necessity. a cause requires time. without time there is no cause. don't just cover your ears and ignore it. take that and actually ponder the consequences of that statement.
5- you're doing special pleading for an imaginary entity, pure and simple
