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JWeinCom on 23 August 2018
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WolfpackN64 said:
JWeinCom said:

But, they don't prove the existence of a god.  Again, if you accept the premises, which I do not, they prove a cause.  There is no real justification for calling that cause god.

If you have an argument that actually does prove god I'd be open to it.  To my knowledge there has yet to be a sound one.

https://youtu.be/zYFUP_vZUCU

Also, if you're interested there's a good video of a PHD in philosophy discussing the Cosmological argument.

I do not expect these arguments to be accept as definitive arguments to God's existance by most people. At the very least, I hope people understand the subject matter is more complicated then "God doesn't exist because no proof".

And if you want to hear a very good inconclusive debate by two gentleman on the subject: (Copleston vs Bertrand Russel)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXPdpEJk78E

I don't think we can say God doesn't exist because there is no proof.  However, we are very justified in saying we are justified in not believing god exists because there is no proof.

I've obviously heard of Russel but never actually heard him speak, so thanks for the link.  I'll put it on my watch list.

mZuzek said:
setsunatenshi said:

Argument from ignorance is a classic logical fallacy (e. g. i can't see how X was made, therefore it must have been Y).

But you really showed a fantastic example of self ownage right there buddy :) 

Don't worry, unlike you, I'm not coming here with the intent of owning anyone. I never once force my beliefs on other people, in fact I don't force my beliefs on myself either - meaning I keep an open mind because I realize I, as any human being, cannot know the ultimate truth to most of the mysteries in the universe. Sadly, some people will force their own beliefs as truth and will try to either ridicule or punish those who don't follow the same thought process, and that can be both extremist Catholic people, or atheists such as you... or other things, too. My point is, I would never say "I can't see how X was made, therefore it must have been Y" as you imply, but I can definitely say it "might have been Y".

Edit: also, sorry for the delayed response, I was busy playing a really awesome game about gods and demons.

Well, we could in almost any circumstance say "it might have been Y", but that's a pretty meaningless statement.  Unless we could say "we have a good reason to think it was Y", then it's really pointless to consider Y as a possibility.