potato_hamster said:
DonFerrari said:
It shouldn't concern to any if the shipment was done in 7 months or 7 years when it encompass all shipment. Unless you have numbers showing that making the frame of analysis bigger would make the shipments higher. As was replied to you this shipment was enough to keep the system on shelves for months after due to sluggish sales.
So your 0.0001% was an preposterous random number you pulled just to say the numbers are bad?
If PSVR sold 3M only on PS4 80M userbase costing 5x more than GoW and still needing extra expenditures on games is niche for you than almost all SW are niche. That is the definition you are bending not others.
I'm willing to bet Pemalite or several other members who follow PC market closely would show how wrong you are about 200M PCs being ready for Oculus and Vive. The fact you have a discrete GPU on your PC doesn't make it compatible with any of these 2.
Let me take it, so like 2 Billion people buying a smartphone considering it a need for them doesn't make a need because you say otherwise. Sure if you want we may say that only water and food are needs. So where are you going to draw your moving line?
Nope Sony didn't go backwards when shipping with DS4 because Move wasn't ever the standard control of PS3. Although they went back on the boomerang because market didn't like it. Kinect2 the same, Kinect wasn't ever the standard input method for X360 and also Kinect2 didn't even get use before being axed on X1. Funny enough for all the flack that Move received, it kept supported for PS4 against Kinect 2. But that have more to do with Sony strategy of diversification versus MS more on it either is massive on market and have chance to monopoly or is cut out.
Blackberry may think it works best, since we have had smartphones with touch become the new standard (which didn't happen in the other examples) it will be very hard for them to go back. What do you think of the chances of VHS, K-7 coming back? What about 5+1/4" floppy disks?
So you brought Nintendo analysts to the table without knowing what they said? Great, thanks for showing you are trying your hardest to win an argument without any backup and trying to throw back spinned arguments to the people discussing with you.
Since we have 2 positive direct info with being over projected and being pleased, plus providing numbers (PSVita they stopped showing numbers when it got bad, and PS3 just got direct numbers when things started being good) make 3 good pointers of meeting or exceeding projections the only thing saying otherwise is your OPINION. Mind to give any source showing PSVR sales are a disappointment to Sony?
You want to toss up the Oculus projection of the past, so allow us to see yours to see your track records. Because your posts themselves doesn't give you any good credentials.
Your criteria in this thread is as flexible as you need to shoot down PSVR and you know it.
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So the fact that while it was being sold the fact that the Virtual Boy sold around the same rate as the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive is irrlevant to you because you consider total sales more important than rate of sale? I just want to confirm that for future reference.
My "0.0001% number" represents an insignificant portion of the market in which VR devices exist. There's a difference between 1 in every 10 Playstation 4 owners bought God of War, and 1 in every 2 console gamers bought a Playstation 4 and 100 in every 100 PS4 Owners bought a PS4, or 1 in every say, 1000 owners of VR capable PCs bought a VR headset. If you can't recognize the difference between the two, that's on you. If you want to blow the term "niche" beyond "represents a comparatively small percentage of the potential market it exists in due to its limited appeal", that's fine. I really don't care how you define words, but I'll stick with the common vernacular.
I really don't think you realize how cheap VR ready PCs are getting, both in the laptop and graphics cards spaces. $650 desktop PCs can run VR reasonably well, and those prices will go down by $100 or so now that nVidia launched it's latest family of graphics cards.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/01/dont-look-now-but-oculus-ready-pcs-are-getting-relatively-cheap/
Also, I didn't say anything about Nintendo's analysts. You did. You misinterpreted me saying "I can find plenty of analysts that make no such insistence that the Wii U failed because it didn't include upgrades Wii remotes as the primary controller" to mean Nintendo analysts. I did not. So what's that about winning arguments? Have you noticed I'm the only one of the two of us actually sourcing my points?
Just because 2 billion people enjoy a luxury doesn't mean it isn't still a luxury. I don't see why this is so hard for you. Cars are also luxuries, so are televisions, so is the internet. I don't see how this is even remotely controversial. Just because you "feel you need something" doesn't mean you actually need it, it just means you're so comfortable with it you forgot how to live without it. There are millions of people in the USA alone that get along just fine without smartphones. How do they do it?
So Sony creates a motion control system, pushes support in a variety of games, creates peripherals like Wonderbook that make specific use of them, and then with their next console scales back the use of motion controls to literally just VR games, and you don't see that as a step backwards? As for MS, you're flat out wrong with the Kinect 2. The Xbox One was on the Market for eight months before they sold an Xbox One without the Kinect 2. Every single Xbox One sold up to that point came with one. Many people didn't even hook them up but bought one anyways just to get their new Xbox. No only that, Microsoft mandated that developers build in some sort of Kinect 2 support into (I believe) every game that came out for the system until that point. It took months of terrible sales, MS claiming that the Kinect was an "essential and integral part of the platform", or that "Xbox One is Kinect, they are not separate systems", and all kinds of other nonsense before they finally relented. Read here:
https://www.polygon.com/2014/5/13/5713634/xbox-one-kinect-integral-add-on
Tell me, what kind of benefits do VHS tapes offer over Blu-ray? What kind of benefits do 5 1/4" floppies offer over thumb drives? What's that? None? SO PESSIMISTIC!
PS Vita numbers were always bad. They stopped showing them when they got outright embarrassing. They released unsatisfactory numbers for the Vita multiple times before they finally started lumping sales. The mere fact that they're still releasing numbers does not indicate that the numbers are meeting expectations, that is, unless you think Sony announcing the Vita sold 4 million in 2012 as "meeting expectations" of selling just 2.8 million units from February to December. And yes, while it wasn't intended, the Vita turned out to only cater to a niche audience.
For the last time, I really, really don't care what you think of my credentials. It doesn't matter if I'm actually Phil Spencer, Shuhei Yoshida, or Miyamoto himself. If my arguments are out there to stand for themselves, and I don't try to lend any authority to give them credibility. I'm not asking you to take my word for any of it. So please don't. If you don't want to respond, don't respond. That bothers me none.
Nah, my criteria has been pretty clear from the beginning, and has not changed. If you want to point our how my criteria has changed about whether something is "niche" or "selling well" or "a VR system", I'd be happy to listen, but as far as I know I've held the same stance in this thread the entire time.
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No the irrelevancy comes from not mattering if it was done in 1 day or in 7 years since that is the total sales and the company cut it out after that because it would just keep dropping sales until it became 0. That is aggravated by the fact that Virtua Boy was a gaming system not an accessory, so any console, handheld or whatever you want to call Virtua Boy selling 700k have been considered a flop, not so much for very specific accessories. The rate of sales of Virtua Boy would be irrelevant closely after they the period you want to consider (as pointed out by another user here, that 700k shipment was largely over supplied and the system kept selling 10k a week months after there were no more shipments, that is why you trying to cut it to a specific period is irrelevant). Another thing that makes it irrelevant is the fact that Nintendo wasn't happy with the sales and cut it out, while Oculus and Vive are keeping it.
You do know that 1 in 1000 is 0.1% instead of 0.0001%? That is the main reason for me calling the BS on your 0.0001% marketshare that you were so proud to give.
I won't dispute your point of 650USD PCs being VR ready, but I want you to provide credible sources that there are 200M PCs that are VR ready at homes as you have claimed. Last I heard from Pemalite there were close to 100M close to PS4 (regular) PCs on the market and those are still not capable of running Oculus and Vive VR at any decent capacity. There were already sources on this thread putting it closer to the 20-50M bracket of PCs that really can do VR with these units. So you better have a source to contradict them, because if not it will be only your assumption that exist over 4x more.
So ok, don't bring the analysts responsible for the system, but please bring an statistic among analysis from credible people showing the reason of failure for WiiU (like 10% of analysts pointed to this as biggest reason, 40% for that, etc) that shows there wasn't a higher percentage of conclusions going towards a high representation of WiiU having the tablet as one of the biggest problems the system faced. I will wait laid down for your sources, if you can't provide then stop trying to say you can find them.
You clearly doesn't know what luxury is. When someone that doesn't even have enough money for food or housing but can buy a smartphone you are clearly not talking about luxury. Car and internet also aren't luxury. Or are you going to consider everything over water and food as luxury? But even so, if you want to call smartphones a luxury, regular cellphones would be on the same class as well so your differentiation would crush under their own weight. Let me help on what can be considered luxury, things that less than 0,1% of the population can afford, that doesn't have any relevant functionality, serves for status over anything else, etc, that is where jewelry, mont blanc pens, gold platted consoles, diamond pierced smartphones, personal 50M USD business jet and other things like that are classified. You wanted so much to use dictionary for niche (even though you can't use basic math) but for luxury you gone for a self coined term.
I'm very wrong on Kinect 2? On the over 6 months in the market please list how many games did MS release that had kinect as the main form of play, because having it hearing a "duck", "reinforcements" or whatever command from the phone isn't really motion control input. I have some games from Move for PS4, including one that came with the system. But yes Sony diminished the support, that isn't coming back, you are very terrible at analysis. If something didn't became standard (as did touchscreen) then removing it isn't really going back technology. But since you brought it to the table, what are your analysis of the sales Blackberry is going to do and by how much will the coming back of qwerty keys will win against all the touchscreen systems?
What benefits of qwerty keys will bring over full screen smartphones with touch bring that weren't there before it got outsold by it. VHS and K-7 brings the benefit of direct capture of TV and radio feed, much easier and direct than BD or CD, satisfied? But since you think Blackberry will come back to win the smartphone fight, why don't you also place your odds for VHS and K-7?
No I didn't say just releasing numbers shows they are meeting expectations. I point other 2 factors of being positive, and that when sales were bad the stopped putting them straight. Don't spin and strawman my argument. Please show your source for Sony not being satisfied or not meeting projections with PSVR.
Credentials =/= names. You pretend to be doing a good analysis, but haven't show anything useful, real or relevant. You want to say you are not being negative, but that is all you have done. You have spined definitions, arguments and all just to try and fit a narrative of your choice.
