MICROSOFT results Q4 and Full Year earnings. Huge.

[DonFerrari]

Azzanation said:

DonFerrari said:

No I'm not saying Live isn't profitable. I'm saying we don't know how much, and how much Xbox department is profitable. Not sure where you got confused though.

Any publicaly traded company have to disclose their P&L as company. Blizzard doesn't have multiple big departments (MS does) so even if they release a corporate one you know it is related to gaming even if you can't say which individual game done it. But please show us how much Xbox profits or loses, can you dig through MS corporate release to get it? Can you separate every year what is xbox and what isn't on its department?

We aren't discussing Blizzard, we mentioned that we don't know the sales of Xbox, XBL Gold, 1st party titles, etc... you have gone left and right saying MS look at what is important to bring revenue and that they are reaping a lot of profit, but can't show the profit.

1) Those are estimate costs for release of the consoles (in the case of PS3 60Gb), not the average cost during the generation (which you don't have). Plus you have what 2 or 3 Billion in losses for RROD?

2) Yes Xbox sold a little more SW, but Sony have sold a lot more 1st party due to the higher number of releases. So revenue was probably close.

3) Xbox 360 had to pay for a lot of exclusives and timed exclusives, total amount we don't know what was and with more servers on XBL it costed more, but sure we can safely assume XBL brought more money than PSN. THe amount? No one know.

4) So you are using 10+ year of revenue for the estimate of Forbes for a window time, even including years Xbox 360 wasn't released or was substituted?

5) Your assumption.

You don't have the numbers for the profit of the Xbox, so even if your estimates are reasonable (in some areas they aren't) you can't say for certain that X360 was more profitable, even more because from all that is know neither was even profitable to begin.

I'll keep waiting for your sources on X1 profits, that HW sales of PS4 didn't brought subs at about 50% rate, number of XBL Gold currently, saying that you made a bogus comparison between PS+ subs and total XBL accounts.

And of course you can also reread the posts and replied to the things you ignored and preferred to change subject.

Okay Don. 

Its time to call you out on your posts.

Strike One!

#Donferrari *Those are estimate costs for release of the consoles (in the case of PS3 60Gb), not the average cost during the generation

https://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/

360 lost $2,996b on HW and PS3 lost $4,951b on HW. Bottom line, 360 was cheaper to produce and PS3 lost $2b more. Plus 360 had revenue from Subs to further reduce the pain, Sony did not.

Strike Two!!

#Donferrari *but Sony have sold a lot more 1st party due to the higher number of releases.

https://www.dualshockers.com/shuhei-yoshida-only-four-out-of-ten-playstation-games-make-money-but-sony-will-always-support-talent/

Only 4 out of 10 Sony 1st Party games make profit. I would not say Sony make more money on the 1st party titles, since X360 had juggernauts. Halo 4 alone made $220m in 1 day.

Strike Three!!!

#Donferrari *Plus you have what 2 or 3 Billion in losses for RROD?* 

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/console-desktop-pc/matthew-wilson/the-xbox-360s-red-ring-of-death-issue-cost-microsoft-1-15-billion/

RROD cost MS $1.15b, not 2b or 3b. Plus lets not pretend Sony didn't have there own fair share of faulty PS3s, Firmware Bricking, Yellow Light of Death plus there law case for lying about there OS where they owe $65 to every PS3 owner from that 4 year period. 10million customers are eligible for there claim which works out to be $650m to add to there already costly PS3. HW sales really makes the money doesn't it.

https://bgr.com/2018/03/19/sony-ps3-lawsuit-how-to-claim-eligibility/

Your facts are all over the place and your the one claiming others talk trash and mislead statistics. Not even one link of source material to back up your claims, instead you are just throwing out random numbers. 3 strikes! you are out. I am done with this thread and I am done with this debate with you. 

Strike One?

So you don't know that the 807 cost was an estimate for the 60GB launch PS3 and that cost decreased a lot with time. Or do you think Sony was selling PS3 for 199 while costing 807 to manufacture?

The guy you sourced also predicted end of consoles and people playing smartphones and PC. That now develop F2P games. That said 60 per game is exploitation. He wasn't someone working on X360 or PS3 so his numbers are his own guests, no solid evidence.

He also doesn't account for RROD. So even is we took his estimatives as right, the difference in loses wouldn't be 2B but about 800M.

So do you sustain that 807 was the average cost of production of PS3 during the gen?

Strike Two?

Yes I do know that during PS3 only 40% of the games made profit, considering the number of games that have been charted in VGC (almost 200) I'll get 70 titles, that sold 145M copies. Average price I'll set at 40 USD (even if most sales are done at full price) and since Sony won't pay royalties for another company will set profit on 15 (so we also get the R&D out) so that will get us 2.2B in profit for the 1st party games (probably more than that) on a 6B revenue.

At the same time MS 1st party would have been about 80-100M copies, using the same 15 profit we get to 1.2-1.5B.

This makes a 700M difference. This basically ties the losses between X360 and PS3 as I said.

And if you want to claim Halo 4, Gran Turismo 5 sold more than Halo 4.

Strike Three?

Yes I was wrong on the cost of RROD, and i fail to see how did I put as fact when I ended it with question mark asking if it was 2 or 3B not claiming it was neither.

Accuses me of mislead... but claim the group lawsuit costed Sony 650M... you didn't even read your own source in your rashness I'll post for you

That decision — to quickly kill off a feature that owners paid for — has cost Sony dearly ever since. The company recently agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit for $3.75 million, with anyone who bought a PlayStation 3 within the time period and used the Other OS feature eligible to claim a maximum of $65. If more than 25,000 people claim the settlement, the amount disbursed per person will decrease.

I do think that I asking if it costed 2 or 3B to MS to fix RROD is misleading, what is to make 3.75M become 650M (I was wrong in guessing 1,73-2,6 over the estimate) you affirmed 173 times over a disclosed and know value mentioned in your own source. So in the end of the day this is almost neglible.

I gave you sources, but if you preffer to ignore it that is on you, but good that you decide by yourself that you won the dispute.

While you go with your chest up full of pride, do you mind to share with us the profits of Xbox1?