| Kerotan said: So let me get this straight? Navi is the next gen GPU from amd created primarily but not exclusively with ps5 in mind? Rumour has it, it's been delayed to better fit Sonys requirements for ps5? |
Navi is not a Next-Gen GPU. It's just an enhanced Graphics Core Next part.
AMD's next-gen GPU architecture actually comes after Navi.
| HollyGamer said: SONY can learn from Xbox One X technique on TDP optimization by soldering the APU close to the PSU. |
...Umm. What.
| HollyGamer said: You might be right, but you also need to remember we are talking about AMD GPU here, not Nvidia , 15 teraflop Nvidia will be equal to 20 to 22 teraflop on AMD gpu , and also if PS5 releasing in 2020 or even 2021 , 20 teraflop + will be a mainstream GPU or standard even on PC. And high end will be like 24 to 30 teraflop on AMD PC GPU. |
Flops are flops. They are absolutely identical regardless if it is nVidia or AMD.
The issue is... The flops that gets thrown around casually like you have done so is merely a theoretical, unachievable number in the real world.
| HollyGamer said: if Xbox One X can have 12 GB GDDR5 on this gen why not go nuts on next gen. Also future PC GPU will also go nuts. Even AMD has GPU that support 64 GB HBM2. And also even if it's imposible "a man can dream " . XD |
The Xbox One X is a "Premium" high-costing device.
The wider memory bus? Costs more.
The extra memory chips? Costs more.
The extra layers on the PCB? Costs more.
The more complex crossbar memory controller? Costs more.
The superior power delivery? Costs more.
The superior cooling mechanism? Costs more.
And it has the price to match... Which is why it will never hit the low price points of the Xbox One S.
For a next-gen console that isn't targeting a lower price point, then you bet'cha an odd 12GB/24GB set-up will simply be unfeasible from a cost perspective. (Plus ignoring the insane pricing for DRAM right now.)
| Dark_Feanor said: According to the article, Navi might be a revision on the RX500 series and still a GCN. |
They are all Graphics Core Next.
The RX 580 was Graphics Core Next 4.0, AMD did rebadge Graphics Core Next 3.0 and 1.0 parts with the Radeon RX 530 and 520 though.
Vega is Graphics Core Next 5.0.
And guess what Navi is? Graphics Core Next 6.0.
They are all part of the same overarching architecture, with small enhancements at every evolutionary iteration.
So yes, in short, Navi is a "revision" of the RX 500 series and by extension a revision of the same GPU that is found in the Playstation 4.
| HollyGamer said: Yeah , i understand cost is the problem here, but PS4 also first came with 8 GB GDDR5 when most of High end PC GPU are 6 to 4 GB GDDR5 in 2013. And still they are managed to make a a high margin profit each of consoles sales. |
The Playstation 4 took advantage of higher density memory modules for a similar cost.
Otherwise they would have had to double the amount of memory chips and costs would have blown out.
12GB or 24GB... I just don't see happening from a cost point of view, you would need a 384-bit memory bus to power that.
| Trumpstyle said: I predicted between 12-24GB of RAM, because of prices as you mention we might actually just get 12GB. But don't we need 24GB ram as minimun for next-gen graphics? I read that from other people in resetera forum that it's required for better textures, more polygons and lightning effects. |
Ram wasn't actually the biggest limiter this generation, more is of course always better... But there are other technologies being brought into play that will lessen the need for giant memory pools.
| shikamaru317 said: A. If such a thing were to happen, MS would most likely go with an AMD CPU and an Nvidia GPU rather than give Sony a 2 year sales headstart on next gen or use an outdated Vega chip B. Such a scenario would never happen anyway, MS has alot more money than Sony, Sony can't afford to pay AMD to make the entire Navi line PS exclusive, MS could easily outbid them. MS needs both an AMD CPU and an AMD GPU in order to maintain backwards compatibility, they won't let Sony lock down the entire Navi family. |
Microsoft will likely never go with nVidia ever again for a dozen different reasons.
Besides, AMD is already working on it's Next-Gen GPU architecture that succeeds Navi... If that GPU uArch is still based on GCN, Microsoft should be able to take the extremely modular Vega/Polaris uArch and add next gen refinements.
Besides. In the end... This is all irrelevant, AMD owns the patents to GCN and by extension Navi.
| shikamaru317 said: Polaris 10 is a 5 tflop chipset, I think the most we can realistically expect for Navi 10 is 10-12 tflop, which would be a 200-240% increase over the 3 year old (in 2019) Polaris 10. |
You are way to focused on tflops. They tell us nothing of the gaming performance a GPU can offer.
| shikamaru317 said: Recent reports put Navi 10 performance level somewhere in the ballpark of Geforce 1080 and Geforce 1080ti, which are 8 and 10 tflop respectively, and historically speaking it takes more tflops for AMD to achieve a similar result to Nvidia in games, so that sounds just about right for a 10-12 tflop AMD GPU performance wise. |
That is because games need more than just tflops... Which is why it's about as useful as using "bits" to determine a chips capability.
| shikamaru317 said: MS would be able to brute force their way to a similar 10-12 tflop level in 2019 by cutting down and underclocking Vega 20 |
Navi will have a focus on better scalability, AMD currently has a hard limit of 64CU's.
GCN however is extremely modular, Microsoft and Sony will NOT be taking an identical desktop PC part and whacking it into a console, it will be customized to a certain degree to meet various design goals.
I just don't see Vega happening for next gen, it didn't meet expectations... And I am pretty sure Primitive Shaders and Draw Stream Binning Rasterization is still not activated yet either, which could possibly point to a hardware fault in the architecture. (Or AMD lacking the resources to implement it appropriately in the drivers.)
| shikamaru317 said: and they'd have to sell at a small loss in order to match PS5's price, and the TDP would be higher so they'd have to use a bigger PSU to power it and vapor chamber cooling to keep it cool, but the end result would be 2 consoles that are roughly equivalent in terms of graphical power. |
Some bold assertions.
However...
* We have no idea what the power characteristics of Vega is like at 7nm.
* We have no idea what the power characteristics of Navi is.
* We have no idea on clock rates.
* We have no idea how aggressive the binning and thus voltages are.
* We have no idea what kind of overall performance improvements that Navi will bring, it might be inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.
So assuming it will rely on Vapor Chamber cooling (Which is added cost.) or require significant power delivery (Which is added cost) is unfounded at this stage until we get more information.
AMD tends not to have big gigantic efficiency or power consumption gains at an architectural level with each successive evolutionary update to graphics core next, assuming Navi will break that norm would be extremely unwise, most of the gains AMD has had to efficiency is thanks to lower fabrication geometries.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
