My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

[alpha_dk]

rocketpig said:

I consider that sloppy storytelling. The fact that the message is so vague and hidden means different people will come to different interpretations. You can find meaning in virtually everything if you want to but it doesn't mean it was meant to be there. The point you and others are missing is that kind of storytelling would not hold it's own in an educational setting because it doesn't "teach" you anything. In the case of MGS Kojima is the teacher, you are the student and MGS is the text book. It's meant to teach the player and so being vague or interpretational doesn't suffice. Imagine had Neitzche written short stories with interpretive characters his work would then be almost worthless because philosophy is a very percise and descreptive field where the writer must express himself extremely precisely through the use of words.

Kojima is IMO one of the greatest creative thinkers of the past century and though he is underrated today in the future when his political and social predictions presented in MGS come true people will take notice and remember him.

I'm sorry but that is the most ridiculous line I have read in quite awhile.

Textbooks tell you what to think. Art asks you to think. That's not sloppy at all, that's the sign of true art.

In 100 years, few will remember who Kojima is but I guarantee you people will still be watching Apocolypse Now and reading Heart of Darkness, despite the fact that they ask you to think instead of telling you how to think, which is apparently a boon of storytelling in your crazy little world.

 

Oh my goodness. Rocketpig, <3 you for responding to this already, but did he really just try to say that the correct way to tell philosophy is through explaining it so that everyone comes to the same conclusion?

---Begin Rant---

Philosophy; from Greek, philos and sophia, that is, the love of wisdom.

Throughout the ages, the one thing that has united philosophers of all schools of thought is this love for truth; it is not to be taught the truth, but to find it oneself.

As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."  We were given our brains, language - everything that separates us from the non-sapient animals - why use them if all we do is turn our vast intellect into a glorified dictionary?

Language is imperfect.  Language can never capture the feeling that we call love, or the way the air smells after cutting the grass, or anything like that.  Language cannot capture these things; the point of philosophy (indeed, of all storytelling) is to use language to get YOU to capture those things for yourself. 

Don't mistake long dialogs that explain everything to you as being good philosophy or storytelling; if you are not getting the truth behind the story, you would be better off without having any dialog, as at least then you aren't wasting your time.  And the truth behind the storytelling; well, something tells me that with DTG's views on what makes storytelling good, he is not picking up anything from said story, so that tells me all I need to about Kojima's storytelling ability already.

Did you know that Ray Bradbury didn't think that Fahrenheit 451 was about censorship?  Shows how much some creators can be trusted to know all the levels of their own works.

Nietszche did write short stories with interpretive characters; read Zarathustra I "The Three Metamorphoses" (or the book in its entirety, for a novel-sized story with interpretive characters).  See also the famous "god is dead" chapter (Gay Sciences III).  Something tells me you also have either 1) not read Nietzsche and are only mentioning him because you think it makes you look smart, or 2) COMPLETELY missed the point of Nietzche.  Try rereading it.