My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

[shio]

rocketpig said:

Breaking the fourth wall is one of my favorite parts of the MGS series. IMO, Kojima is at his best when he goes all postmodern and starts doing crazy shit with his games, constantly surprising the player with things they don't expect. Inversely, he's at his worst when he tries to implement philosophy and dialogue into them.

Exactly! Kojima's best stories were when he tried to keep things simple: Snatcher, Metal Gear Solid 1 (I have yet not played Policenauts, shame on me!).

He does not know how to work on deep, complex structures in narrative and storytelling in a videogame, especially when he barelly uses interactivity and doesn't know how to implement the concepts and story in the gameplay.

 

Plaupius said:

DTG said:

Yes, I have seen Apocalypse now though I'm not sure if it was the Redux version. However most of the dialogue minus the one with the French only lasted a couple of minutes until they moved on to the next scene. Like I said, name me a movie with a 1 hour scene similar to MGS2's devoted soley to the exploration of philosophical themes. The last 10 minutes of 2001 was extremely subtle and so I really can't consider it on level with MGS which lays it's philosophy out to you in words. School books and the education system rely directly on words and concise explanations to impart knowledge, if text books began being subtle implications of things they would be mostly useless in education. It's the most effective way of presenting knowledge and teaching someone.

 

Are you familiar with the concept of "sometimes less is more"? If we're talking about the depth of the storyline and skill employed in conveying it, teaching is the complete wrong analogue. And even regarding teaching, do you know Zen koans and how they are used to teach? Now, if it is Kojima's purpose to teach the gamers about philosophy, then why not do it using the means of the media? Why do it in a movie-kinda way? That does in no way warrant such high praises as he's getting.

In my opinion, and I'm not alone on this, the highest level of storytelling does not so much explain as it evokes: you can't explain how to feel, for example. Kids have the age of asking questions about everything and wanting everything to be explained to them, but we grow up. I'm an adult and I actually enjoy using my cognitive capabilities to figure out things by myself, and if I'm not specifically requiesting to be spoon-fed information, it is just boring. Even moreso when the thing that I'm fed is not of gourmet quality, as is the case with every single game in existance. Thankfully, not all games try to force their ideology down my throat.

Thank you! I have debated this argument several times with DTG and other MGS fans. And I'll say this again: Kojima does not know how implement philosiphies, complexity and story in the gameplay.

If any gamer wants to see a great implementation you should play 'Planescape: Torment'. The way the concepts of immortality and punishment/redemption are so intricately related to both story and gameplay is nothing short of masterpiece.