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Politics - "Incel" terrorism - View Post

Jaicee said:
Nymeria said:

When discussing the sexes the challenge I see these days is to convey that we're in this together and gains are not zero sum in nature.  Feminism was about, and should be, promoting equality and seeing areas where our male counterparts are suffering.  We've had a long history of struggle through discrimination, we should seek to be better than the model of the past.

If we're fighting, we will all fail.  If we cooperate, we can make society better for everyone.

I feel that the formulation above loses something important, indeed defining, about feminism: women!

Feminism, as the term suggests, is about liberating women from patriarchal social relations. It's not about making men feel better or apologizing for having won some reforms and agreeing to compromise them away. It's not a men's movement for women. It isn't #NotYourShield or #NotAllMen. I just think we need to remember that.

The onus of preventing misogynistic violence such as we are discussing here is not on us as women. It is on those who commit it and on a culture that promotes the corresponding mindset that led thereto. I think there are ways in which men can benefit from the changing of such a culture, yes. In the long run. In secondary ways. But I just think we need to remember who the women's movement is primarily for, not just who it may benefit eventually by proxy effect.

I am grateful for the victories feminist won and I will never apologize for seeing it as progress.  I dealt with deeply patriarchal structures growing up, the kind with 19th century mentalities on women.

I never excused the end behavior, ultimately if a guy calls me a cunt or threatens to rape me or gropes me I don't much care about his background, he should be held accountability for his words and actions.  

I have spent a lot of time in my life helping women and been part of groups that support them. I know very well the challenges we still face as a society.

My point is how we achieve the next step of progress.  We don't compromise an inch on what we want as women, but we can work with men.  We're not conquering them, we're asking for equal treatment and opportunity.  I've found you win a lot more people over to the cause framing it this way and I never want to be like the men I knew growing up who told me over and over how my sex was a deficiency that limited my potential.  We can do better, we are not like the patriarchs.