Dr. Shawn Baker challenges vegan jihadis, eats only meat for 15 months. Think he's unhealthy? Here's what happened...

[DonFerrari]

palou said:

DonFerrari said:

When someone to have a healthy diet on vegan or vegetarian needs to do a lot of planning against a regular meal anyone is already eating you can see that it isn't healthier per se. 

I mean, I agree with that (start of 4th paragraph, haha!) I just meant that it was *possible* to be healthy on a vegan diet, for anyone that chose to do the planning.

Yes it's possible to be healthy with vegan diet... and probably someone could be healthy only eating meat and taking a lot of supplements.

John2290 said:

DonFerrari said:

I know how average works. And yes a lot of child died of malnutrition and diseases. Still the most someone lived on average base was 65 not 100.

Well, Veggies and Meat will have fat on them, but sure you can add dairies on this diet... and also yes I put a regular diet for people of today (that mostly are officer workers). But there is no denying that too much meat on your diet isn't health (same with only veggies).

Indeed, as I said in my first comment on this thread, moderation and balance. 

yep

John2290 said:

palou said:

... What concerns the bolded, here - that isn't how evolution works. There, in fact, exists no such thing as "devolution". We stay with whatever form is most optimal. Saying that eating less meat makes it more optimal to have smaller brains really doesn't have any sort of basis. (In the past, it could - since hunting required intelligence. The same can't be said about choosing ground pork on the supermarket aisle.) That is also not how regressive genes work. They don't activate on a diet, they activate if there is no dominant gene, (ususally only happens when inbreeding).

Again, omnivorous doesn't mean that we need a diverse diet. The whole point of being omnivorous, and what has allowed us to prosper so long, all over the globe, is that just about anything will do. As said, most ancient cultures had 90% of the population living almost exclusively off of the most available starch source. That definitely isn't healthy, and there are a number of specific *deficiencies* that were caused from it (scurvy, the most notable), but it still worked out, otherwise - because the human body is extremely adaptable, as said. These people were physical labourers, by the way - if anything, more so than anyone doing the same today. Deficiencies have been studied for a long, long time. You definitely don't slowly starve yourself to death from a vegan diet.

I'll agree that Veganism is more of a hassle than many people are willing to engage in, and does require you to do some linear algebra on your nutritional intake. Vegetarianism, on the other hand, does not have such a restriction, and is generally considered perfectly healthy, without supplements. 

I've actually already debated someone on here that there aren't any inherent medical advantages to veganism, either, haha, so it's fun to defend the other side, for now. The point remains that there ISN'T anything, at all, in meat, that you can't find in higher concentration in some fairly common plant-based food - be it amino-acids, fatty acids, sugars, or any micronutrient of your choice. It requires some linear algebra to get the proportions right, because each *single* plant is further off from what you'd need, but there is absolutely no scientific reason for which a planned diet should in any shape or form have worse results on your health than taking it from meat. Because, again, in the sum, a diet can be planned to have entirely identical nutritional content, after digestion, if the calculations were done correctly.

Anyways, interesting topic. I'm not vegan/vegetarian, btw, haha!

Yes there is devolution in life due to environmental and food sources you may however just call it evolution as it is no different and no, humans would not remain the same if we didn't feed ourselves the varied diet we need nor would we be able to retain our current state. In the same way prehistoric creatures like spiders became much, much smaller due to oxygen we would over many generations change in a more negative way equal to how we have evolved from a varied diet. Ever had to have your appendix out? That's evolution in action in real time with pain to prove it

It's waaay more than just a hassle but a way of life unless you have a personal meal planner or a damn PA, it goes beyond the pale of what is possible for most people in today's society and the ones with time enough for it most likely don't have the money for it so Vegans can virtue all they want but the reality of the situation never changes, they are an outlier, there are negative effects to health and it's not feasible for the majority and no fuck all people want to have to live in your world of mood swings and a more boring palate. Show me a Vegan without mood swings and I'll show you Bethesda game with not a single glitch. ^_^

Good to see you aren't vegan as I was wondering why you'd be for GMO's and synthetic meat as so many Vegans are against both.

There is also the 4 teeths we grow in adulthood that due to we using less strenght while chewing we don't develop our jaw and don't make space for those extra teeths... and probably since we do clean them a lot more we also don't lose teeths that would be substituted when the 4 grow.

palou said:

John2290 said:

Yes there is devolution in life due to environmental and food sources you may however just call it evolution as it is no different and no, humans would not remain the same if we didn't feed ourselves the varied diet we need nor would we be able to retain our current state. In the same way prehistoric creatures like spiders became much, much smaller due to oxygen we would over many generations change in a more negative way equal to how we have evolved from a varied diet. Ever had to have your appendix out? That's evolution in action in real time with pain to prove it

 

For the example of spiders, there's a rather obvious relation. Spider's don't have lungs, and aren't able to distribute  oxygen throughout their bodies correctly, if there isn't sufficient oxygen. They die, if they're too big. So, smaller spiders survive. Simple as that.

Humans don't die, don't become infertile, etc... when they have a vegan diet, and a smaller brain certainly doesn't compensate for that in any way. The evolutionary drive just isn't there. 

You would be looking at a very limited time frame in this analysis you made.