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Helloplite on 10 April 2018
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LurkerJ said:
Helloplite said:

Nah, you simply are utterly clueless about how the law in the UK works, and how it should work. A Canadian throwing pamphlets saying that Jesus is gay outside an Anglican school would also be banned from entry in the UK, using the exact same law. As would someone throwing pamphlets that homosexuality is gay, outside an LGBT support center. Try harder (tip: you can start by actually responding to my substantive points, than trying to transform this a debate over whether the word 'gay' in that case actually referred to the homosexuality of a fantastical being.

For your information, I actually do think that both Allah and Jesus are gay. I fantasize them doing it in Valhalla, under the watchful eye of Jehovah. 

This whole conversation started with you saying hate speech isn't subjective, and that it should be banned. You can start by actually responding to my point and explain to me how Islamic teachings aren't considered hate speech in the UK despite stirring up racial hatred, than trying to transform this a debate over my understanding of some dumb law that shouldn't exist in the first place.  

I am not saying that hate speech should or should not be banned. Hate speech is banned, and it is not something subjective. It is clearly defined in the British legal system, which is the legal system applied to in this case. Capiche? 

Now, in regards to Islamic teachings themselves: I actually find Islam, alongside all monotheistic Abrahamic religions, to be very simplistic and constructed around patterns of us-versus-them, which permeate the vast majority of religions practiced worldwide. Any religion that distinguishes between infidels and non-infidels is a religion constructed around the practice of segregation and assimilation.

Now, here's where things get interesting: Free speech and freedom of belief or religion mean that anyone is allowed to believe anything they want. Religions are very controversial constructs that can often be used for hateful reasons and that much is clear to me from the get-go. However, so long as an individual does not enforce or practice their belief in a way that does harm to another, I am actually fine with it. I am fine with Satanism, just the same as I am fine with Islam. The moment a Muslim actually decides to take up arms, and go on a Jihad based on their interpretation of Quran (whatever that is, I actually really don't care), that's the moment when police ought to come and throw them in jail to rot. I may believe that children are unholy products of Satan. As long as I don't go around killing children and enacting my belief against the laws of the state or country I live in, I am actually fine. If I went around calling all children of Jews satanic, I would be committing a hate crime and that would be well beyond my rights to freedom of speech and freedom of belief or religion. I would, at that point, by actuating my beliefs into hateful practice, which is where justice and law would rightfully step in.

I am not even a liberal, yet what I said is precisely the context upon which ALL so-called 'western democracies' are built upon: individual liberty as the principle around which social justice is constructed.