Feminists outrage at walk on/Grid girls, F1 & Darts models ban. Your thoughts?

[DonFerrari]

Teeqoz said:

Aura7541 said: 

Because you only speak for yourself on the first example 'objective statement'. The objective statement I gave cited a primary source, in contrast.

What? I only speak for myself on the first "objective statement"? Which one was that? I honestly don't know what you're talking about here. Is it the "I don't see the use of female models in a motorsport tournament" statement? I've never claimed that is an objective stateme, it explicitly states "I don't see". In fact I've told you several times that that was a subjective statement (as if that was necessary).

Seriously, what is it you are referring to here?

Aura7541 said: 

Then your use of sufficient does not make your statement objective unless we have an empirical measure of what "sufficient" is. I ask you how do we evaluate whether something is "sufficient" and your response is to ask F1. Not good enough.

I said it was sufficient for F1. If my sentence had ended after sufficient, you'd have a point, but it didn't. Did F1 make the decision to get rid of grid girls based on pressure from external groups? Yes. Ergo that external group was sufficiently large (large enough) to get F1 to make that decision. We don't need an empirical measure on how large that group is, beause my statement was that it was large enough that F1 made that decision. Which it neccesarily is, since F1 made that decision.

We have an empirical measure of that - did F1 decide to remove grid girls? The empirical answer is yes. Ergo the group opposing grid girls was sufficiently large to get F1 to decide to remove grid girls. I thought that was self-evident? It's a logical necessity.

Aura7541 said: 

Well, you're certainly not helping your argument by throwing false accusations of me making up a new definition when my thesis was about the application of the definition, not about the definition itself. I'm surprised that you are unable to distinguish the difference between the two thing.

The Oxford definition of non-essential is objective, but that doesn't make your use of the term objective. This is along the lines (but not exactly) of an ad hoc fallacy. I also did not make up a false assumption of what non-essential means. I argued that how you used the word is not correct with the reason being that you limited the use of the term to whether grid girls participate in the sports or not. In other words, you were being pedantic (your absolutely favorite word). In contrast, I argued that grid girls are potentially not non-essential from a business standpoint as F1 is indeed a business and a company's ultimate goal is to make profit. For someone who preached about "covering all bases", you are not practicing what you're preaching.

Anyways, it was why I made that long paragraph about percentages and raw numbers. Maybe I made it too irrational to ask for actual hard numbers. However, we can, at least, find public statements from F1 about the decline of financial return from grid girls if they are indeed non-essential business-wise. Maybe something along the lines of "Due to the steady decline on the financial returns from grid girls over the past few years, we have regrettably decided to end the practice in F1". In this example, while there are no hard numbers, but F1 has cited a YOY decline in the financial contributions from grid girls to F1 as the reason. Of course, that is not the case in reality. They just cited... "societal norms".

I have empirical evidence proving that grid girls aren't absolutely necessary for either:

F1 decided to get rid of grid girls. Ergo they aren't absolutely necessary, not for business, nor for the sport.

Further evidence: The world endurance championship got rid of grid girls in 2015. Conclusion - grid girls are not absolutely neccesary, anyway you cut it. Do they provide some benefit? Possibly, but that benefit is empirically non-essential as several formula racing tournaments don't have them.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/wec-getting-rid-of-grid-girls-for-all-events-including-le-mans/

Let me get this straight - do you think grid girls are absolutely necessary to have a formual racing tournament? Can you not have a formula racing tournament without grid girls?

Using the absolutely necessary is quite a problem, because you could also argue that pilots aren't absolutely necessary (as you can have it by GPS navigation or someone outside the cockpit driving) or that the power isn't absolutely necessary since they had less than 200bhp under the hood way back.