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Hiku said:
dirtylemons said:

People often change their views when something happen which challenges their preconceived notions. Just as many people toughen their stance on gun regulations after suffering a tragedy, others become more supportive of gun rights once they've found themselves unarmed in a dangerous situation. I wouldn't say one is inherently better than the other.

Okay, you brought up banning guns, so I'm going to take that to its logical conclusion. Right now, the U.S. is a hub for the illegal sale of firearms. If you crack down on legal firearms before you've decimated the black market for them, do you think the violence rate will rise or drop? Would you say that a spike in violence would be worth tightening regulations or outright banning firearms?

Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, so it's not just guns. And unless your solution is to transform the United States into Japan, I don't think their impressive lack of crime really helps at all.
I also think Australia and the United Kingdom, like Japan, aren't very good comparisons, because they are island nations, not directly connected to any countries with high homicide rates. Unlike the U.S., which is part of the same land as Mexico and Central and South America. These areas contain the highest murder rates in the world.

And yes, it is sensible to view countries differently for the very simple reason that they are different. Leaving your door open in the U.S. is much more likely to lead to some sort of violation than doing the same in Japan.

I get that people can change their perception when something hits them personally. It's the "until" part that's hard to understand some times when it comes to matters that are constantly brought to our attention. If you hear about someone else going through the same thing, why not change your mind until it happens to you? I'm speaking in general here, not just guns. Many times I guess you could chalk it up to people being uninformed. But many other times that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm not necessarily talking about just banning guns, but as I mentioned earlier, making half-hearted efforts will do little to nothing, or can even have the adverse effect. If you're going to do that then you need to fully commit from the start. The gun that was used in the Sandy Hook shooting costs $32 000 on the black Market in Australia.

But in my opinion they should start off with heavier regulations for all types of weapons. You need a drivers license to drive a car, and a 13 year old boy who can't buy a scratch ticket can legally buy a rifle without any license requirements (it's federal law applying to every state):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB7MwvqCtlk

In Australia, people often call it a gun ban, but it's not an actual ban. They just heavily regulated firearms.
One thing that resulted from this was higher gun safety education, because people who are serious about wanting to protect their families have to go through training, and need to renew that training every few years. Similar to a drivers license.

Japan has a very low crime rate. And it's not unrelated to the fact that people's access to commit crime more easily is heavily restricted. If you want to take out your anger at your classmates, it's much easier to do it with a firearm than with a blade.
As for which countries USA shares borders with, that's a factor. Not an excuse to do nothing (meaningful). UK is by no means a country that doesn't have big problems with violent crime, or troublesome people coming in illegally. But in spite of this, police in the UK don't even carry guns with them these days. They may some times request backup from someone with a tazer. And in even rarer cases, someone with a gun.
When not everyone around you is potentially armed, fewer and fewer feel the need to arm themselves.

I've never in my life though "I wish I had a gun". Because while there are some illegal guns in circulation, there's no reasonable scenario where you'd need to arm the general population for any situation except for when facing off against another gun. And the best way to make everyone uneasy is to supply everyone with guns.

You can blame some things on other countries, but USA at it's core has a very gun focused culture that has gone on for centuries.
It's not Mexico's fault that ~600 people were killed by accidental firearm discharges in USA in a single year. That's almost two such deaths per day.
That number alone is disturbing.

And yes, I agree you probably shouldn't leave your door open like that in the US. (Probably shouldn't anywhere) And one of the reasons for that is, the outcome is more likely to be lethal when the intruder expects a gun in the house.

I think it's only natural to have a different response when you actually experience something versus seeing or reading/hear about it over and over again. And each person is likely to have their own response, based on their previous individual experiences.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think the only solutions are outright banning firearms or leaving things as they are. I'm not even against stricter regulations, I just want to know exactly what regulations would have affected past homicides as well as incidents of self-defense. If I can be convinced that a new law is only likely to reduce violence overall, I don't see why I would be against it.

I don't know about kids being able to buy guns. I seriously doubt it's legal where I live. I'd need to see how many underage people are legal firearm owners in the U.S. and compare it to the number of minors who commit crimes with legally obtained firearms before I made a judgment.

If I'm mistaken in calling Australia's stance on guns a 'ban', then I apologize. I was merely using the colloquial way gun control proponents refer to it.

I don't disagree with lessening the feeling of needing to be armed. But right now there is just a flood of guns coming into the U.S. illegally, and until that is controlled, I don't know that stricter regulations on legal gun-owners is going to result in a reduction of violence.

I certainly wouldn't blame any other country for U.S. problems, but I of course think neighbouring countries will have an effect. And I also think it important to highlight the statistics. You brought up accidental deaths. Yes, it is incredibly unfortunate that so many people die from accidental shootings in the U.S. But I also think it important to point out that the rate is over twice as high in Mexico. I don't hear people complaining about a gun culture in Mexico, yet they're worse in every regard.