4 - CrazyGPU said:
PS5 needs to be 3840 x 2160. A 4k native console. So If we want it to handle the same games with the same shading and lighting as ps4, no improvement, just 4k native resolution for the same game. it needs 8,3 megapixels per frame.
Permalite said:
It doesn't need to be anything. Like every other preceding console generation, resolution will be completely up to the developer.
The Playstation 4 isn't even a true 1080P console, many games operate at 900P. Or 1600x900 rather than the full 1920x1080 resolution.
The Playstation 3 had games than ran at sub 720P resolutions.
In-fact the base Playstation 4 supports HDMI 1.4, so in theory it could do 4k30fps if sony/developer allowed it and the visuals were dialed back.
CrazyGPU said:
Yes, resolution is up to the developer, but how Microsoft marketed the XBOX one X for example? As a 4k native console. If you have to say in ten years what resolution the ps4 handle, you would say 1080p, despite some games doesn´t reach that even at 30 fps. Most do. The PS5 will have to run most games at 4k (Im not talking about minecraft or tetris at 8k here), even though some may run at 2k checkboard, but that will be the exeption, not the rule, like now with the ps4 pro. Some games run at 4k checkboard and some other a little more than 1080p. I think that Sony should make a machine capable of running most games at native 4k 30 fps to diferentiate from PS4 pro and take advantage of new TVs. Companies use graphics as a hook now, and its a better hooK than showing better CPU or RAM.
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5- CrazyGPU said:
And we can have that by 2019-2020. Xbox one X is 6 Tf and just lauched.
Permalite said:
The time frame of when the Xbox One X launching is ultimately irrelevant.
If the technology doesn't exist in the PC's mainstream, then it's never coming to a console, it is simple as that.
As for flops, again. It is a useless denominator, you can have a graphics processor with less flops outperform a graphics processor with more flops. It's stupid and nonsensical because games actually need more than just flops to render a scene.
CrazyGPU said:
It´s not useless, but It´s not accurate either. For example, if the PS5 is a 1 teraflop machine, it won´t be able to calculate fast enough for 4k resolution. But there is a window. For example, a Geforce GTX 1070 has close to 7 teraflops but its architecture is fast enough to be compared to an AMD RADEON VEGA 56 with 10.5 teraflops. That means that a 10 teraflop console without CPU bottlenecks can be able to run 4k 30 fps at high quality with today games. We have to see if they can put such a capable graphic processor on a console power envelope by 2020. If they change AMD for Nvidia, 7 teraflops would be enough for 4k 30 fps if architecture doesn´t change, but BC would be more difficult I guess. And again, bandwith and the rest of the graphic pipeline should be balanced or it will have a bottleneck. It will take more than the usual 6 years to have a processor with the flops an all the rest necessary to achieve 8k and that’s without increasing the quality of AAA games.
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6 - CrazyGPU said:
PS3 cell processor was fabricated on a 90 nm process. That means each transistor was 90 nm in size.
Permalite said:
Are you sure about that? 14nm finfet is actually based on the 20nm planar process.
Don't fall for the "nm" marketing angle that fabs push out, they fluff up the numbers to make themselves look good.
You should try checking out the individual BEOL and FEOL sizes sometime at each geometry size, you might walk away a little surprised.
And that is the reason why Intel has typically held the fabrication edge... Because even though Global Foundries has a "12nm" process, Intels 14nm+++ likely has the edge still.
CrazyGPU said:
Again, it doesn´t matter if its 12 or 10 or 7nm. We are getting close to molecular size of transistors. Intel 80386 was 1500 nm in 1985. They are using extreme ultraviolet light and thinking of x rays. There are no many shrinks left and each of them are harder and more expensive. Fabrics are beyond expensive to make. Moore Law is slower nowadays. It´s not year 2000 where you have a new graphic card architecture every year. So the shrinks needed to justify PS6 will take more time, hence PS5 will have longer lifespan.
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7 - CrazyGPU said:
PS4 Pro APU was fabricated on a 16 nm process and most likely PS5 will be fabricated with 7nm transistors.
Permalite said:
7nm is a given.
CrazyGPU said:
1 nm is the size of 10 Hidrogen atoms. So we are talking sizes of 70 atoms for a transistor. They don´t have much room left for miniaturization.
Permalite said: Citation needed.
CrazyGPU said:
Atom size. https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1996/MichaelPhillip.shtml
They need new materials, they are studying silicon replacement, they are getting near molecular size, they have more quantum mecanic problems, machinery in fabrics are becoming exponentially expensive. They should get arround it but it will take more time than ever to make a justifiable PS6.
Of course you can make one in just a couple of years if its dekstop size and has 3 high end graphic cards and 1000W available. But that wouldn´t be console power envelope.
Last edited by CrazyGPU - on 13 February 2018
