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sc94597 on 30 January 2018
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Cubedramirez said:

1. Representatives elected by their local community. Also  if you want to be a stickler about it, we can use the same foundation found in the Deceleration of Independence. Natures Law.

2. You either willfully take what was written out of context or I did a poor job in explaining this. Unique men and women drive society. These people have a drive, a passion, a desire to achieve and accomplish for their personal benefit. They take risk, discover opportunity and act on it. What makes them unique from the overall population is that the majority of human beings do not do this hence why society is advanced by the efforts of unique people. The point of the statement is that in a socialist society the natural drivers of human achievement are snuffed out among the population and are only found in government settings where the motivation is solely on how to maintain their political power. Or as is often the case how to take that power from those in charge to achieve political success; often by blood.

3. I can't even on this one. I am not sure if you're responding to my last point or throwing a fit. Socialism believes in equal results while Capitalism believes in equal opportunity. This is not even in question considering the repeated attempts of socialist governments that all travel down the same road. Mass poverty, destruction of individual rights, removal of property rights and a repugnant loss of human opportunity. 

I am a proud capitalist who believes the driving force for humanity, what will continue to further improve our overall condition, is not found in the halls of any government entity. Rather in the new ideas and efforts of free men and women looking to improve their personal condition by creating new products, services and concepts that we all will benefit from once they are brought to market. 

1. Local community of 600,000 people? That's a pretty big local community, and I find it hard to digest that representatives do much representing anyone on this matter. So I maintain, authoritarianism. As for your citation of natural law, which natural law? Locke's? I suppose you'd then concede to Locke's provisos or do you ditch them out of convenience? 

2. I didn't take what you wrote out of context. The paragraph started with a strawman of socialism, I addressed it as such. Then you chose to generalize most people as "masses" without any interests or goals of their own, which is a silly assertion. Can you substantiate your assertion that only a few people take risks with some evidence or are you merely going off anecdotes? "The point of the statement is that in a socialist society the natural drivers of human achievement are snuffed out among the population ..." If the entire scope of socialist theory were state-socialism, you'd have a point. But there is a branch of socialism which doesn't rely on the state, and in fact is considerably anti-state. This is the socialism we are speaking about in this thread, and yet you are ignoring it. This socialism wishes to make everyone capable of taking risks and innovating, not snuff out the people who currently can innovate. 

3. Substantiate the following assertion, cite a socialist philosopher or thinker whom believes this  "Socialism believes in equal results while Capitalism believes in equal opportunity."

The vast majority of socialists don't want total equal outcomes or "equal results" as you say. They want equal opportunity, like you assert Capitalists want (and which I'd disagree, otherwise Capitalists wouldn't beg for state privilege.) 

Again you cite "socialist governments" when the socialists in this thread wish to abolish government. 

"what will continue to further improve our overall condition, is not found in the halls of any government entity. Rather in the new ideas and efforts of free men and women looking to improve their personal condition by creating new products, services and concepts that we all will benefit from once they are brought to market.  "

I as a socialist, agree. Now let's move beyond the misconceptions  and have a real  honest discussion please. If you're not interested in that, then so be it.