What is "socialism"? - An attempt to clear up myths/misconceptions

[DonFerrari]

Leadified said:

DonFerrari said:

How asking if you are a ludist is an ad hominem? I asked that because they believed automation would destroy works, instead it just shifted how work was done and in fact raised everyone earnings and quality of life in the long term.

You deflected my question by asking if I am a Luddite which is absurd. Do you not read the news or anything? Automation is increasingly becoming a topic of debate and universal basic income (which is provided by the government) is often justified because the economy will become more automated in future. So please answer my original question.

Yes I read newspaper, still the fear of automation is ever lingering and there are doomongering over it all the time. Doesn't make it likely to happen

VGPolyglot said:

DonFerrari said:

Yes I know how bank make money. He didn't make a loan that is the point you didn't understand. He just entered the red on his own account paying obscene interest on it. He didn't picked a lot of money as well.

He couldn't pay back the 10k USD, if his business didn't really take off in 2 month he would go bankrupt totally. For you to have an idea he had to take the debt because his partner dropped from the risk on the week prior to it, he had to sell his old car. So unless we are talking about homeless that have nothing on them (which in developed countries case is the very very very minority of the population) basically no one can say they can't start a business because they don't have money. They may not have the courage, knowledge, insight, etc, but money per see isn't the biggest detrigent. Such is a fact that in Brazil most business are very small and with very little capital.

On the immigration that could be the case today, but those studies show things like 3 generations so it is like accounting immigrants that came 50 years ago and how their grandson are doing.

How much money would he have to have in order to be allowed to go 10k in the hole? I can only go $100 in the hole, no way would my bank let me be over $10,000 in the red. And you say that he would have gone bankrupt, do you know what causes bankruptcy? A lack of money. So, the choice between not starting a company and not having a company or starting a company and going bankrupt and thus not having money doesn't seem like 2 very favourable choices.

Also, I didn't deny that it was counting grandchildren of immigrants, but the financial status of your parents have a huge affect on your own financial status:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/18/poor-kids-who-do-everything-right-dont-do-better-than-rich-kids-who-do-everything-wrong/?utm_term=.8af9876b9f32

If you earn 5k per month in Brazil you can have your account be allowed to go to the whole. And not even sure why we are considering this amount unnacessible to most. That is the price of a entry level car in Brazil, which you may not believe most of the population own.

Sure it isn't a good choice to go bankrupt, and most people avoid risk. This one accepted a very high risk and it paid off fast. Today he is multibillionaire. He could have gone slower and safer but he would lose his window of opportunity (he had found the right place and signed the rent before his friend backed off).

Yes the money of your parents can influenciate yours, but those are son and grandson of poor immigrants so their parents made it from ground. This was just to point against your assumption that the study was counting immigrants that come with a lot of money or opportunities.

I'll give you another pill of Flavio Augusto knowledge... when you put the blame on the system or others there is nothing you can do and you will only suffer. But when you believe you have the power to decide your future (and responsibilities for your failures) then you can go and do.

Also not sure how much you deal with workers, but majority I've seem aren't not only risk adverse but also such stability lovers and complacent that they get stuck on their positions like forever.