clevited said:
There is evidence, the Bible and the billions of people that believe that particular God exists. You don't have to go to church, give money or anything to believe God exists. Don't we need a moral code?? Whats wrong with a Christian one? Who would you trust more to not harm you if you are all alone, unarmed in a dark alley? The Christian guy, or a gangster? Really no reason to trust or not trust either as you would be judging them before knowing them, but if you have to go by moral codes, I might lean slightly towards the Christian person lol. Obviously there are bad apples regardless of your code, but this is just a basic example. There are people that succeed in exactly what you said regarding money. Some are Christian, some have no religious affiliation, some have a similar crazy claim but most are a much simpler version of that. When I give to my church however, I know what that money is going for. I don't give the money to go to heaven or be in God's good graces, I give it to help keep the church running, and to help it with it's charities. Anyways, I am not the most eloquent in explaining these sorts of things so I will leave it there. Might not be examples that make sense to you, and you might attempt to find every single flaw or hole in what I am saying to make your point. If you want to not believe in God, and prove relgion sucks, you will succeed, if you want to believe He is real, you will succeed. Which one brings you the life you want?? That is up to you. I am bowing out of this forum, I have said my pieces. I am not a very good debater, I just wanted to share my point of view. Also, since this is a gaming website, GAME ON! |
I think you did a good job of articulating everything you wanted to say. Just to address my side of it:
Evidence drawn from the Bible is a circular argument; why should we believe in the validity of the Bible? We are told so because it is the word of "God." How do we know who God is? The Bible ... metaphysical claims about the universe do not work that way.
You are right in that you don't have to necessarily do anything to believe that the Christian God exists, but that metaphysical belief will have a dramatic impact on your life / moral outlook. Imagine if you held the belief that all food in the world is poisoned. Of course that would have a big impact on your life.
Yes we do need a moral code, I would argue, and the Christian moral code (altruism) is not sufficient. One can not help but think of countless examples of people killing in the name of the Christian God ... it certainly does not have a good track record. Of course, there are a lot of nice things that Christians do too that are nonviolent and benefit a lot of people. That is the problem, we need something a bit more consistent. Personally, I think rational egoism is in line with our inherently selfish nature (I'm not using selfish as a judgement on our species, but more so a statement of fact). All animals want to selfishly replicate their genes, survive, and thrive, we should not ignore that and no moral code should ignore that. Christianity (and any religion that pushes altruism) asks you to sacrifice yourself for the sake of God, society, or something else ... I'm saying that you should live your life to the fullest, it is yours to use as you wish.
The example you gave plays more on bias than on real statistics. Atheists make up a small % of the American population but they are far less likely to be convicts/criminals. Most people in prison (again U.S. data) identify as religious.
I'm glad that you do find fulfillment in your religious belief. Ultimately, I am not interested in whether or not someone is religious. I would still argue they would be better off with a rational world view, but all I can do is point that out, nothing more. So long as people are nonviolent and do not try to force their beliefs or will on others then I really don't care what people believe.
