"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

[Peh]

o_O.Q said:

TH3-D0S3R said:

Coming from the Christian point of view, please don't insult the atheist psyche. If they want to be assholes, let them be, don't result to using those tactics. Besides, most of the people commenting have been very open about their own ideas and hearing out your own ideas. When you insult them it takes away from your argument and further validates their BS claims.

Basically what I'm saying is don't fall for the bait.

i'm not attacking anyone

i'm saying that what differentiates an atheist from another person is the unverified idea that there are no gods

i'm also saying and there are a few examples in this thread already that a common theme with atheists is that religious people are intellectually inferior, we have for example people here saying that and i'm paraphrasing off the top of my head that atheistic morality is based on rationality over old books, that religious people are morons, etc etc etc

my last point was simply that beyond the unverified idea that there are no gods, atheism as a belief system has no other merit besides in my opinion unjustified arrogance... i mean if i'm wrong on that i'm open to hearing about the other useful qualities atheism offers, but i'm just saying that is what i've experienced

the odd thing is that the atheist in here from what i'm seeing have been unbelievably hostile towards religious people, whereas i don't think i'm being hostile and i'm being called out instead of the hostile comments made by the atheists

i think the reason for that is that there's this idea that the default correct view is the atheistic viewpoint and therefore people who hold that position are naturally given more leeway than someone who does not hold that viewpoint

I can understand why you are saying something like that. It's because you still don't understand atheism. And your post clearly shows it. If you do the same by debating or arguing with other atheists, then don't act surprised, that they don't take your position serious, because you simply lack the understanding and knowing of what atheism is and what atheists are.
It's stuff like that: "my last point was simply that beyond the unverified idea that there are no gods, atheism as a belief system has no other merit besides in my opinion unjustified arrogance... "
You lost the debate before it even started by misrepresenting the opposing position.

o_O.Q said:

Peh said:

Welcome to the forum.

"I find in any belief of there being no God, where science rules all, that there is a scientific area that cannot be proven or disproven and can explain God's very possible existence." 

Are you familiar with the "god of the gaps" argument? 

"Simply put, God can be a being from another dimension."

That's what I don't like about apologists. You just take your God and place it somewhere where he cannot possible be found in order to say, "He exists there, prove me wrong". Not that the supernatural realm even exists in the first place, it's not a fact. I find it quite funny that the bible itself is not mentioning anything about dimensions, at all. Do you know where they put God in the beginning of writing the scripts? They place him in the sky. Why? Because no human being was able to get there to confirm that he is actually there. While we were able to go past that and even further, god was placed further and further away. Just to be sure that no one can disprove his existence.  

"This idea opens up possibilities to things we cannot comprehend, and we may never understand because we do not live in such a higher dimension." 

   This seems to go in the direction of agnosticism. Higher dimension have not been proved nor is there any trace of them actually existing. They are just concepts as of now.

 

"Not that the supernatural realm even exists in the first place"

 

of course it does, this is the definition of supernatural : "(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature."

 

do you honestly believe that our scientific instrumentation and our senses are able to pick up all of the phenomena in existence?... dark matter all by itself disproves that idea if you do hold it

You see, because supernatural is defined in a dictionary, doesn't mean it also exists / is true. If there is a supernatural world, then it is out of our reach and mostly not interacting with our natural world. If it would interact with our natural world, we could observe its effect on it and it would be natural. Dark matter is called dark matter because we don't know shit about it. Doesn't mean it falls in the realm of supernatural, because it clearly has an effect on our world. 

"do you honestly believe that our scientific instrumentation and our senses are able to pick up all of the phenomena in existence?... dark matter all by itself disproves that idea if you do hold it"

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that has been said 100 years ago and look where we are now and what we have found. In order to pick up all of the phenomena in existence, you have to know which do exist. If those are interacting with this world, we surely be able to locate them and probably also explain. If there are phenomena that exist, but don't interact with this world, then surely it will be the same as they don't exist in the first place. So why bother? And as I said above, you got a wrong idea about what we think about dark matter. Nevertheless, where do you place your God in all of this?

Oh and.. our senses? No. But that's why we use "scientific instrumentation" in the first place.

There is one particular thing I don't like about certain theists. And that's reverse engineering. You got and idea and a concept of God and try to work in order to proof that concept. That's the opposite what science is doing. That's also why Intelligent Design is not considered science.