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irstupid on 04 December 2017
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Jumpin said:
Volterra_90 said:

That's my main grip too. I mean, Xenoblade saga is really great, but not a single game managed to do the learning curve right. I'd prefer that to make it more.... integral to the gameplay, they could make a character being your mentor and teaching you things as you progress. Rex's grandpa, for example, could fit that role perfectly. It'd still be too intrusive, but at least it'd feel more organic to the game experience. That wouldn't solve the problem, but, to be honest, I can't think of a perfect way to teach you so many things throughout the game. I prefer this approach to the XCX one, which was pretty much... not having any approach xD.

Heh, I actually loved the way XCX did it. I loved being dropped into the world and given more freedom; but yeah, I have probably played over 100 RPGs all the way through, and am into games like Dwarf Fortress. I also love exploring mechanics and UI on my own. So I'm not necessarily the best example of player to go by when thinking about how to design for most players.

The worst tutorial mess I ever saw was Final Fantasy 8. That seems to have messed up anywhere between 40 and 60% of players. The issue was the tutorial introduction of the draw system, but not at all introducing the core feature for gathering magic - which is the crafting system; it should be introduced BEFORE drawing.

Essentially, crafting/refining magic from materials is the primary way a player can get magic. Instead, players were just accumulating all those items that enemies dropped in battles, forgetting about them, and got all their magic from drawing instead; which is extraordinarily tedious, and likely ruined the experience for a lot of people. It's why you have a lot of people who have Final Fantasy 8 as their favourite Final Fantasy, and many who list it as their least favourite. If they ever remade Final Fantasy 8, then I imagine they would do things very differently in that regard. When I ask people why they hate FF8, drawing is typically their top answer - but the game actually gives you more than enough items for crafting to get through the game without drawing; it's essentially there for players who want to max out more quickly on a specific type of magic - but it is completely unnecessary for game progression, as you get more than enough items.

Speaking of Final Fantasy 8, the Xenoblade games share some mechanics with that game. Takahashi was also one of the designers on FF8, so I imagine they are his work: draw points, proactive dialogue boxes, and refinement.

I don't recall the crafting in FF8, I just did drawing pretty sure. Still my favorite FF game.

Drawing wasn't too bad. You just got to a new area, and check new enemy if they had an item you didn't have. You then spend 15 minutes drawing in that fight and your good to go if you wanted it. A bit tedious, but simple enough. Reminds me of like when getting to a new area running around the map uncovering every area and talking to all random npc's. Also tedious, but just something I do when entering new area. Like Xenoblade 2 right now, when I get to a new town, I'm running around the whole town and talking to a ton of pointless npcs and other stuff before I even think of touching the main mission when I arrive.

I feel lIke I got in that habit due to some RPG's having missable quests in the past. I want to make sure I do everything before it disappears because I talked to someone. As much as I prefer open games like Xeno, it is somewhat a more relaxing rpg in a linear experience like ff13. Tales games are the worst though. Like after every single main quest thing you need to rescoure the entire globe ot make sure you didn't miss anything new that pops up for only a second.