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Goodnightmoon on 29 October 2017
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Nem said:
Goodnightmoon said:

You, like many Portuguese, have a lot of resentment against Spain sadly, that doesn't let you think clearly. 

You don't seem to realize how big of a problem would be if Catalonia goes while most of its population wants to stay, which is what every inform and poll says will happen, neither do you seem to understand the huge manipulation going on over them, they don't really know the consequences of independence, nobody told them, they believe they are gonna get richer soon which is laughable watching how 1500 companies have left Catalonia in few weeks and considering that like 70% of their exportations comes to Spain. Even famous British historian John H. Elliot said yesterday that Catalan people has been told a completely false story for ages, They are told a different version of history and they are highly manipulated into believing everything wrong that happens to them comes from Spain and everything good is because they are awesome, is pathetic when you actually live here and understand what's happening, they were governed for 23 years by one of the most corrupts politics of Spain (Pujol) because they wanted, after knowing this guy (and all his family) were stealing catalans for decades they are still so blind that they keep saying Spain is corrupt unlike Catalonia, right... just like many catalans were shitting about Spain for selling weapons to bad countries while 25% of those weapons come from Catalonia... they are driven by blind nationalism.

You are even talking about Castilians instead of Spaniards, why? I'm from Valencia, we used to belong to the Aragon Kingdom just like Catalonia, we even speak Catalan too and have it as an oficial language, yet almost everyone here completely supports the union of Spain, and so does people from Balearic Islands and Aragon, so what are you talking about Castilians? Do you think we are still in the 18th century or what?

It's their mistake (or not) to make. You can't make the decision for them.

I say Castilians (thank you for correcting me on the english term for it) are the ones that subdued the surrounding Kingdoms. That is why i mention them, because they have always been passive agressive with their power plays. Most of these Iberic kingdoms were aquired through palacian coups (usually through pressure of military action). Nowadays, that is not how things work anymore. 

You are happy beeing part of Spain, that is fine. I'm not saying all should seceed. Just whoever doesn't want to be part of it. These decisions can't just carry over from old monarchic marieges. Especially if an area has different culture, language and customs.

Spain has to stop beeing an empire and start beeing a union everyone wants to be in. That is the only way to have lasting peace in the iberic peninsula. That ideally should start by having a referendom in every region to find out who actually wants to unite and who doesn't by the will of the people.

Is not about wether I'm happy being a part of Spain or not (I want to cause I love Spain but at the same time I'm not happy cause I don't want to live in a country governed by the most corrupt and incompetent politic party of Europe) is about being against something completely antidemocratic and out of law, sometimes I wonder myself if we Valencians should go with Catalonia (they want us to go with them) because in many aspects it could be positive, but even if someday I embrace the independentism I would still never be in favour of an antidemocratic shitshow like the one that the government of Catalonia has made, nothing in this process made any sense, is almost like some politicians wanted to rush the independence to hide some dirty secrets before its too late (Wasn't Andorra's banking secrecy going to end in 2018? uhmm) and I don't want to be an accomplice of that, neither should the Catalans. We'll eventually reform the constitution and they'll eventually have their legal referendum, until then they can pressure for more autonomy but they cannot just leave whenever they want using the results of an ilegal referendum with no democratic guarantees that was made going above both Spanish and Catalan laws and with a completely missinformed population that has been exposed only to the YES campaign with nobody explaining them all the pros and cons of independence, is just very unethic.

Last edited by Goodnightmoon - on 29 October 2017