Forza Motorsport 7 brings the future

[DonFerrari]

NATO said:

DonFerrari said:

Crash modelling itself wouldn't be that hard.

two bodies, quantity of energy, angle and speed of impact, center of gravity... they could model the result of the crash, the cosmetic damage they could also stipulate with the mesh damaging.

On one video Kaz said something interesting... "simulating driving physics isn't really hard, we think it is, but if it is complicated is because you are doing it wrong".

I guess the reason for they not doing crashing physics is more lack of interest (and that most people would turn off because they would lose all races, even worse when AI bump you even when you are doing the turns the right way) than anything.

And how do you evaluate how close GT simulates the driving aspect of the race? On my small experience I can say it's quite good on the fundamentals.. after playing for 6 GTs and over probably 2000h I raced kart for the first time and won, having the 3rd best lap of the month at it (20min race) and most of what I did was from learnt on GT 6 kart experience. I also know that Kaz had never run Nurburgring in real life before going for a race over there (but had over 1000h of Nurburgring racing in GT) and came out 1st or 2nd on the class he gone. GT Academy winners are racing on good level against pros that raced whole life, etc... But in the case of GT Academy and Kaz they wouldn't say anything bad because they are interested in the success of the product. So what is your opinion on the translation from your gaming to your pro racing?

Purely from a car physics model perspective, discounting collision, they're about as good as can be expected for the current hardware I guess.

Physics modelling is simultaniously too complex and too simple, too much emphasis is put into how each car handles and getting that handling as close to the real thing as possible, but in doing so and not addressing major contributing factors to those characteristics results in pinpoint focus on getting the physics to do what the real life car does, without the appropriate inputs, thus making the physics calculations for the inputs they do use, wrong on their own.

Tire interaction with the road surface is a big point of contention, currently it's a factor of calculating friction and grip with some games going a step further and using event triggers to dynbamically adjust (reduce) the calculated values to simulate tire wear, what they do not do however is take into consideration that a rotating tire is more than the compressed sum of its grip, the entire surface of the tire will wear uniquely, and grip characteristics change based on a multitude of factors, grit in tread, cracking across tread patterns or lost blocks from aggresive use, temperature across the tire, air temperature and PSI of each tire as heat effects the observed pressure, tire wall ridgidity as heat and abuse effect it.

Then, once you factor in all of that, the track surface itself, no two patches of asphalt are the same, varied degrees of baldless (loss of loose medium), compression characteristics (drive on an old section of road then onto a newly laid section, it's a minor difference but you will feel it instantly), grip effects and characteristics for a tire hitting a painted portion, the type of paint used (marker, grit-market, rumble, warning, graffiti), ironworks laid on the track itself, rubber deposit, oil loss, track temperature, racing line grooving and plenty, plenty more.

Even as a driver you don't take these conciously into consideration, but as you familiarize yourself with a track you instinctively learn of these minor faults and issues, if you're simply driving around your neighbourhood you'll encounter it, in certain sections of road you'll know to slow down because a manhole cover causes your tires to slip, or you move to a specific side of the road to avoid a rough patch or hole, etc. you don't get that in these games.

And the most obvious one is the lack of geforce effecting the driver, even on super expensive setups, all they really amount to is shaking your chair and at best, learning you sideways so gravity sort of pulls you to one side, but the effects of gravity and indeed the constant knowledge that messing up on a corner or during an overtake could at best destroy your vehicle, or worst, end your life, subconciously effect your choices as a driver, you dont get that in racing games, because any sort of accident that would end the race for you in the real world have next to no consequences in a game, you don't even have to stop racing, theres rarely any lasting consequence beyond repairing the car and even that is a rare requirement.

Racing sims are good at getting the basics down, and allowing you to develop a relatively reliable grasp of driving technique, braking discipline, good lines to take, overtaking a manouvers, throttle control (for wheel owners), but stepping out of, say, a 800hp GTR in a game, and into the real thing and taking it on a track, are two vastly different things.

I would say I have to agree with you in all points, and have seem some of those comments...

They do laser measure all tracks and their cracks and paints, but I'm not sure how close they try to simulate the effects of those in the driving, besides all the points you mentioned about tyre physics.

And I would say most aren't crazy enough to go into a 800hp GTR in real life and try to do the same as in the game. You would probably instantly freeze before the forces of acceleration and side G-force. And that is why I would like to separate the money to do the day track of Lancer Evolution and have some real racing experience because even on the kart the G-Force made it so much more fun than just driving fast without real feedback.

You sense so much more with your foot on the pedal, the shaking of the seat, all sensorial parts that give you better understanding of the car and racing than the control.