RolStoppable said:
This is the kind of attitude that Nintendo shouldn't hold. Fighting the market doesn't do a business any good. The only reason why 2D Mario and 3D Mario ended up close in the eighth generation is because Nintendo put all ideas into 3D Mario along with higher production values while 2D Mario got recycled art, music and world themes. And despite Nintendo stacking all odds against 2D Mario, 2D Mario still didn't lose. killeryoshis is absolutely correct that a 2D Mario that is treated like a AAA title by Nintendo will obliterate a 3D Mario that gets the same treatment. |
2D Mario didn't lose because they were launch titles ... they pretty much *did* lose in the long term. I can't say I agree. While it would be great to see Nintendo put a lot of effort into a 2D Mario, assuring quality into a short lived series that was milked to death probably wouldn't make for a console seller. And even then it would probably come out around the holidays, obscuring any sense of whether it's the title selling the hardware or the holiday itself. The reality is a 2D Mario on Switch would probably sell 4, 5, maybe even 6-7 million, but I don't think it would be a huge system seller. It would probably sell systems by itself, maybe even a big amount, but not over a long stretch of time. It would be incredibly short lived, and then it would rely on the holiday to get it past. The general interest just isn't there. These are fun, little, quirky titles you buy along with a system. Not system sellers. You already have Kirby and Yoshi(both by the way should have more effort put into them, i'd rather see them improve than 2D Mario) for families as a backlog title, and maybe a new DKC for the hardcore gamers. None of those games will sell like 2D Mario, but it doesn't really have a place in the system already. Honestly, id be much better for like 2019.
We actually have already seen what Nintendo do when they want to make 2D Mario into an actual project with effort that may even have console sales appeal. It was called Mario Maker. I don't know how much they can improve on that game though, but hey, I wouldn't be opposed it becoming the Minecraft of Switch!
killeryoshis said:
Sorry even Nintendo disagrees with your statement on why they made 3D mario more like 2D mario. Here is an entire article on that very subject. Fast forward to late 2011, and Iwata’s opinion on Super Mario 64 would remain pretty much the same. “Super Mario 64, which Koizumi-san was a part of the development team, was a game that was praised highly. But at the same time, it created a group of players that felt 3D games were too difficult for them,” said Satoru Iwata. Later in the interview, Iwata adds the following, “Wandering all around provides a lot of freedom but carries with it the problem of not knowing where to go and getting lost. In a 2D Super Mario game, you just keep going toward the right and the goal pole is sure to be there. You don’t have to worry about whether you should keep heading in a certain direction.” “[Super Mario Sunshine] is an authentic sequel to Super Mario 64. I regret this somewhat — not because of the quality of Super Mario Sunshine, but rather because this Mario game may not attract players who are returning to gaming after some time.” said Miyamoto. Miyamoto continued, “One thing that has hurt the Mario games…Taking them into 3D, while it has expanded the worlds, has shrunk the user base. By going into 3D, the games have become more complicated. Before that, the Mario games were the type of thing that anybody could pick up and play very easily. By going into the 3D world, we have limited who that game is accessible to. After Super Mario 64, making a game that those 3D Mario fans can enjoy further requires shrinking the audience even more because you need to go more in depth. What we did with Mario Sunshine to make it more accessible is that we tried to create it so that you could control the camera any way that you wanted it. That was how we started development on the game.” Koichi Hayashida would explain in an Iwata Asks, “I think there is a missing link between 2D and 3D Super Mario. To go back in the history of Super Mario, I feel like there is a chasm between Super Mario World and Super Mario 64. I wanted to make something that would bridge that gulf, and what did that was the goal pole.” He further added, “…we started to think about “how we can establish the game world” as we apply the original 2D Super Mario rules for 3D. In other words, we tried to imagine how we should make the courses.” “I analyzed Miyamoto-san’s way of making games and tried to make Super Mario 3D Land the way he made 2D games,” said Hayashida. |
Well, that is interesting, although I kind of expected that because it seems like that's a very Japanese centric thing to do. I should have added an addendum in my last reply, but basically, I can't say that I didn't believe that already, because it seems like a lot of Japanese gamers are more into 2D games than 3D ones.
The Wii U did not succeed in it's first few months because of fucking New Super Mario Bros U, are you kidding me? The Wii U suceeded, *barely*, because people put stock in it being a new Nintendo console. Literally all you heard from people who were considering a Wii U(assuming they knew the damned thing) was that they weren't going to get one because they weren't any Nintendo games.
Bringing up the Wii era? Are you serious? I'm not fucking retarded man. Everyone knows the Wii/DS era of 2D mario sold systems! But the Wii U era? Nah. Even the 3DS was boosted more by other titles than New Super Mario Bros(and you could argue the price cut was more so the determining factor). Don't come at me with arguments so poor they're almost condescending. Everyone knows Super Mario Bros was a big deal in the DS/Wii era. we're talking now. What you showed wasn't proof the game sold the Wii U. In retrospect everyone criticized the Wii U because it didn't have a big game like Zelda to sell it months on end. Even your use of statistics is terrible. It literally launched during a holiday season and beyond that the Wii U's sales were so poor that coming up with a 25% figure makes it seem a lot more potent than it really is, to almost misleading degrees. The Wii U sold alot because a new console almost always sells well on launch, especially during a holiday season.
