A $1,000 per month cash handout would grow the U.S economy by $2.5 trillion, new study says

[DonFerrari]

Teeqoz said:

Pyro as Bill said:

No offence but I'll take the Invisible Hand over a socialist's crystal ball and tarot cards.

I'm all for the invisible hand, that's what is pushing us towards UBI - it isn't viable for anyone, including the people at the top - to have an economy where most of the population is outside of the labour force and don't have any money, and thus can't afford goods. Doesn't matter if the rich can produce shittonnes of stuff cheaply thanks to automation and AI if no one can buy things. Hence why I believe society will be inevitably pushed towards a system akin to UBI. This has nothing to do with socialism, it's just the inevitable end game of mass automation and AI in a capitalistic economy.

Go invisible hand.

The invisible hand of the market would be more on the people discovering new needs of the market and entrepeneuring on it and opening new companies and those companies will end up employing the ones that didn't had the idea.

The government paying UBI isn't invisible hand at all.

Teeqoz said:

DonFerrari said:

Most of you guys saying robots and automatization will rob almost all jobs.

Economy will always change.

It will replace most jobs. It'll take a few decades, sure, but it'll happen soon enough. I don't mind though - more free time for everyone is great. It just forces a change in our economic system to cope with it.

The economy will change, and yes some jobs or even most will be replaced... yet there have been more professions created in the last 10 years than in the previous centuries. I would guess we have gone from like 100 professions from like 10 mileniums to over 1000 in the last couple decades.

just a small and quick source https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/17/technology-created-more-jobs-than-destroyed-140-years-data-census

RolStoppable said:

DonFerrari said:

Rol, every single source is finite, be either high paying or low paying jobs, raw material, etc. And sure there is a difference between having a job or not, what I'm saying is that it isn't "majority" of people would be totally unfine with UBI and not working, because if that were the truth then what purpose the UBI would have since the person would already have the job?

I understood that the UBI would sum to the income the person already have, but if the UBI already covers for that person need, a very big amount of people would just do that and not have any other form of income.

Your first paragraph is so strangely written that I have to ask you to reframe what you are saying.

The purpose of UBI is not to have everyone be wealthy and live a good life (the definition of 'good life' is very subjective, after all), but to assure that everyone's basic needs are met: A home and covering the bills that come with it, and something to eat. UBI is not supposed to be so high that people can buy electronics and other luxury goods every month, go on vacations and other nice things. There's no doubt that some people will be content living on that standard, but most people want (a lot) more from life.

It is simple, every single thing is finite in quantity, so saying high paying jobs are finite is useless. In USA alone less than 10% of the job positions are minimum wage, so we can't say that there isn't option for people to grow on their careers. Also I said and resay that people are free to be enterpreunal if they decide or if there isn't space for growth.

I understand the purpose of UBI. Yes a lot of people want more than the basic, but are those same people willing to take the time to get it? Any school you go much more than 2/3 (ass pulled data) are satisfied with getting grades to pass. And you have no essay that would warranty that most people (sufficient to keep the rest) would want to work more to live better and would be totally ok with people doing nothing and getting the basic.

If most people wanted to improve their life then you wouldn't have most also being stagnant.

Look at the small experiment of class scores to see what happens when you remove the incentive from the equation.

And sure most people want more from life, and several of those doesn't think working to earn more is wanting more from life, most work because they need to.