o_O.Q said:
"None of those have definitive answers"
lol really? so you don't think everyone would agree that its better to be healthy as opposed to unhealthy?
"And none of them are moral questions."
i didn't say they were, i used them as examples that some forms of behavior are objectively better than others, isn't that obvious?
"Agreeing on some values does not make for objective morality."
that's not the case... that's about as close as we can get to objective morality - in that we look at what patterns of behavior are most beneficial for individuals and communities across a civilisations and across a large time period and make conclusions based on those observations that's the same method we use to produce technology and make conclusions on the nature of reality of our world - the scientific method but i suppose you first first have to acknowledge that objective reality is a thing... which you seem to be denying right now
"the evidence is history You need to be more specific"
that its been the primary method man has used and still uses to communicate these values and that's a fact
"despite this we still utilise the scientific method... we don't allow the fact that we are flawed and limited beings stop us from investigating things and reaching
"Considering out limited knowledge and predictive powers, I fail to see how you can have objective morality, with or without god or religion. "
so again your point is apparently that there is no such thing as objective reality... if you are going down that road then what's the point having a conversation to begin with
"and that is an inherent flaw in all communication... nothing man creates is perfect, there are always flaws no matter what, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do things So then belief in god does not enable objective morality. Cool beans. Guess it's settled."
no what i said there is that the means of communication we use are flawed... that's a seperate issue from the information we are trying to convey being incorrect... you understand the difference?
if i shout from a mile away that 2+2 = 4 but you hear me say 2+2= 7 what is the problem here? the means of communication? or the message?
|
lol really? so you don't think everyone would agree that its better to be healthy as opposed to unhealthy?
You're changing the terms. Before, you used the terms fit and overweight. Overweight is not the same thing as unhealthy. You can be fit and overweight. You can be normal weight and not fit.
And, being overweight is definitely advantageous in certain situations. If I was in a place or time where food was scarce, I would probably want to be overweight.
that's not the case... that's about as close as we can get to objective morality - in that we look at what patterns of behavior are most beneficial for individuals and communities across a civilisations and across a large time period and make conclusions based on those observations
that's the same method we use to produce technology and make conclusions on the nature of reality of our world - the scientific method
but i suppose you first first have to acknowledge that objective reality is a thing... which you seem to be denying right now
What you described is not objective. People are going to look at patterns and draw different conclusions. I agree it's a good way to arrive at a moral system, but it's not objective, and it does not require god.
I don't know when I denied objective reality.
that its been the primary method man has used and still uses to communicate these values and that's a fact
You didn't say it was the primary method. You said the best method. Those are very different claims.
It doesn't matter.
You argued that god, as a concept, is necessary for objective morality, which can be transmitted through religious stories. If we can not read the stories and reliably draw the same moral conclusions, then we do not have objective morality.
Language is the means of communication we have. If language is insufficient to transmit objective moral values, then we can't have objective morality until we find some better way to communicate Whether or not we have god.
