mZuzek said:
I actually didn't even criticize the lack of aerial combos in other games, and never even used KoF as an example (whenever I used examples I always contained myself to Pokkén, and occasionally SFV and Tekken 7, which are games I have played and have some knowledge about), I criticized the limitations you have in aerial options when you're thrown in the air vs. when you jump into the air, whereas Smash allows you to do the same aerial actions regardless of how you got there. Edit: for example you mention how a lot of fighting games have options to break out of combos and such, and I know those exist, but the thing is, usually it's something specific like, do this certain thing at this part of the combo and you'll get out. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing at least one game where you could break out of combos by doing something that depleted your special gauge, but since I don't know what game it was I won't say anything - but that's my point. I don't like games that are built on the interactions of specific scenarios, I like games that have a few base mechanics and allow you to work around them to create different scenarios yourself. That's the reason I don't like most TCG games like Magic, for example - they always revolve around having some dominant type of card, and then introducing another card that specifically counters the current OP one and becomes relevant solely for that reason, and I feel like a lot of fighting games (and certainly Pokkén) nowadays fall to that rule too. |
torok said:
The point is that the other games don't need these options because their design is different. On SSB, you can throw someone in the air, jump and hit them. They will fly and (if they don't die), you can hit them again. So, in SSB, if you lost control when thrown in the air, the oponent could kick you as many times he wants to. So it must include some kind of counter to that. On SFV, per instance, you can't really do that. You can hi hit a strike or a simple combo and that's it. So any form of aerial defense is pointless. Tekken 7 is even less necessary since you jump just 30cm. |
Oh wow, missed this whole discussion because of my work but I do have to be objetive, Smash is not a casual game by any means... It's different and can be considered a non traditional fighting game but It does require skills indeed, bunch of mindgames and strategy. I play Melee almost every weekend with my best friend and I can tell you sometimes Smash requires more strategy and skills than other Fighters out there (cofcofSF5cofcof). I really think items and Specials are there to take casuals into account but having the option to remove said items in order to have a more balanced, competitive and overall better metagame is valid.
Also, I don't agree with mZuzek when he says that you have to follow a certain order of actions to get an anti aerial, breaker, etc. That can happen with a few fighting games but some of the best give you the option to break of an aerial combo or respond to a mistake during one... I think the major difference here is that while Smash isn't by any means "Easy and casual" it tends to forgive many mistakes from the players, while in a traditional fighting game you really get punished badly after one single mistake. Let's say you missed a grab with Sheik in Melee, in a Traditional Fighting game you would be punished and I'm pretty sure 50% of you HP bar will be gone just because of that mistake you made while in Smash you can just roll out to safety and look for another oportunity with minial or no punishment. There's a bigger risk-reward situation in place during a Tekken 7 match for example.
