torok said:
I believe that you're spoiled because Smash doesn't have it. It also doesn't not share most mechanics of other fighting games. Specially specials, that are terribly implemented (it's ridiculous that a game must have part of its gameplay forbidden on championships). Landing those "super duper" specials takes skill and has its risks, that's why they are important. Let's use KOF XIV as an example and see how a pretty good player would act. You can have up to 5 bars (depending on the round). A Neo Max special uses 3 entire bars for a roughly 40% damage. A regular super uses 1 bar for around 15% while a beefed up super uses 2 for 20 to 25%. If, like you said, you just input the combination and do one of these, most likely you won't hit your target. Specially with Neo Max, they are easy to block or dodge and you would just throw away several bars. What a good player does is using cancels. If you skillfuly and quick input a sequence after another attack hits, you can cancel the animation (while keeping the damage performed) and land a secons strike as part of a combo. In KOF, you can use command normals to assemble combos with regular attacks. Regular special attacks can be canceled in supers and super can be cancelled in a Neo Max. That way, you can remove the risk of the supers by only using them when you're sure to hit. You define skill as doing combos (which is actually ridiculously easy in a lot of games, like SF), but the real skill is on doing combos with these high level moves and deal a big damage at once. Other games use other mechanics. MK X, per instance, uses 3 bars where 3 do a X-ray, 2 allow to break a combo and 1 can be used to increase the damage of a single move. So it's a balance between risk and reward, using the X-ray will leave you in a situation where you can't escape a big combo (you need 2 bars). Sometimes it's better to just use 1 bar to soup up a move instead of risking losing everything in a X-ray. If you play against someone minimally capable on one of these games with that mentality of simple combos and trying to use specials to do the work, you probably won't do well. As for the "cutscenes", the minimum I expect when I'm able to (with KOF's Terry) hit a flying kick, cancel it in a command normal, hit a high punch, cancel it on a Power Wave, cancel it on a Buster Wolf and finally turn it all on a freaking Neo Max after inputing almost 20 buttons with perfect timing is to see my character beat the crap of the other guy while taking off 75% of its health. |
Correct, you get a special but that will leave you open to everything and making your next combos weak until you build up some more bars.
Also I love watching KoF XIV matches or If I get the chance, streams... The game seems like it took the good and made some amazing changes! I'll be getting it for PC soon and try it myself! :)
I also think SF 5 became WAY too easy for me to enjoy, there are no really many options when it comes to a character, someone jump? Oh, do your only air combo, did he made a mistake, go all in with the same combo you always do... and play the waiting game until another oportunity comes... Also almost every character feels the same and I hate that!
| sundin13 said: Complicated motions are pretty much always the worst part of fighting games. That's why Rising Thunder was so damn amazing. By simplifying the input system, it made the game more accessible, but by balancing the game through mind games and fundamentals (spacing, footsies, etc), it was able to maintain a high skill ceiling without an insurmountable skill floor. And then it died. Fuck Riot Games. |
Yep you are right, a skilled player can take a person who spam a button or a skill easily, but that's not what i'm salty about, is the fact that by doing that they are creating some sort of lazy player that will expect a game to have a 1 wonder button everytime, spoiling everything for them. (and spoiling them too.)
I also think you are right when you say complicated motions need to change but most of fighting games do not have complicated motions, you get 1 or 2 that are pretty hard to do, the problem is connecting said abilities one after another and canceling them... If you don't give it time, your hands will just dance like crazy over your control and do nothing but look stupid also taking away motions or characters with specific ones will kill the options you have at your hand when playing and making every character feel the same.
I love Arms and that game doesn't require a bunch of keys or inputs to be skill based, also Smash.
