Pemalite said:
Turkish said:
Agreed with that, but I think the 7800 belongs to the high end range as well, the mid range is so broad that saying it's mid range doesnt fully do it justice. It's just not the highest end. It's best to describe it with game settings, according to DF PS4 versions of multiplats mostly run at high settings, with some settings at medium.
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High settings with some of medium isn't high-end. Especially when games aren't all doing 1080P, 60fps.
Besides the PS4 is using such old GPU technology, even hardware like the Radeon RX 460 (Slower than the RX 560) is faster than it now. Which means the Playstation 4 is relegated to the bottom mid-range and Xbox One is low-end.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-460,4707-3.html
Turkish said:
But you dont know that, nothing suggests AMD will at this point, they could but right now they are slowly transitioning to HBM2. It could be the case HBM becomes cheaper and available enough to be put in more ranges of cards from next year.
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The fact that Hynix and Samsung are ramping up GDDR6 production to take advantage of scales of economies? That nVidia potentially has a GPU in the pipeline to use it?
Doesn't make sense to use GDDR6 and ramp up production of GDDR6 if they are transitioning to the older HBM2.
I did provide evidence in a link.
Turkish said:
That's basically what trickle down means and what I meant. GV100 was never a next gen platform for a hypothetical gaming console to be released in 2018. If GV100 performance is gonna be available in a next, cheaper architecture so will HBM, manufacturing will improve, it'll have new process technologies. It's not going to stay expensive.
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So what you are actually suggesting now is not HBM1 or HBM2 at all. But HBM3 on a newer, smaller process?
HBM3 will likely not result in a large reduction in costs due to the TSV and Interposer. It could potentially even have a taller memory stack which could keep costs the same or even higher.
Certainly not enough to compete with the much cheaper GDDR6 that's for sure.
Turkish said:
Not me, I was blown away by the exclusives I mentioned, hell SWBF2 shown last night looked amazing. Expect HDR and higher color ranges to play a yuuuge role in next gen too. HDR is going to be the next big thing after 4K. Many say it's a more substantial upgrade than 4K.
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Battlefont uses some pretty interesting techniques which allows it to pull off the visuals it does. Namely photogrammetry.
I assume you mean HDR as in the one tied to your display, HDR, right? Otherwise the other HDR has actually been with us for a good 15+ years.
And I agree. HDR could be the next big thing. I am yet to see a game that fully leverages it, but I think Displays need to catch up allot first as well.
But I digress. I find Xbox One graphics to be pretty mediocre. Halo 5 had 10-15fps animations when the game was running at 60fps, which looked jarring.
Often games have a soft look due to a lower rendering resolution and inferior anti-aliasing method.
Textures are usually fairly muddy due to the lack of fillrate... And even things like geometry is pretty mediocre thanks to an average geometry unit.
It's good enough for the price I guess. Scorpio does resolve all that. Still doesn't compete with a High-end PC in any metric though.
Turkish said:
But they will introduce s new set of features hypothetically. I'm just talking about the level of performance. Also the Kite demo and the Agnis Philosophy demos with just raw power look amazing on current tech.
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Not in Scorpio they won't. Scorpio's feature set is baked and fully ratified.
Next Gen will bring something different.
Turkish said:
I'm not so sure myself because there's still so much to come out this gen, its weird to think PS5 could be here in 2.5 years. I just hope they time it with AMD's best on 7nm architecture and not come a year just before they have a die shrink and new platform. Like Nintendo, had they waited just a little bit Switch would've had Tegra X2, a faster and more power efficient chip.
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Well. I think Nintendo wanted to go with Tegra X1 not because of timing... But because of money and risk.
Tegra X1 was old stock that nVidia would have likely wanted to shift.
And Nintendo probably didn't wish to make a massive gamble on newer more expensive hardware and have another Wii U scenario on their hands. That could have been a disaster financially.
We do need Nintendo to stick around, same with Sony and Microsoft, they all push each other forward and progress the industry as a whole.
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Hynix and Samsung both already make HBM2, it is already in production with the highest end cards and the economies of scale is ramping up further with Vega. Not only do they make HBM2 they also work on improving HBM. AMD is betting heavily on the technology, it's not gonna go away. It might not be until HBM3 is ready for it to take over completely but it is the future of memory. Both Hynix Samsung are already working on low cost HBM3 with double the density and bandwith of HBM2, reported to come out in 2019/2020 just in time for Navi. Nvidia doesnt dictate where the industry goes. At best GDDR6 might be a stop gap solution that's gonna be phased in the next 2-3 years.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/08/hbm3-details-price-bandwidth/
"So what you are actually suggesting now is not HBM1 or HBM2 at all"
No I either suggested GDDR5X or HBM2, but you only focused on HBM2 and how the technology is NEVER gonna be feasible on console level hardware.
"I assume you mean HDR as in the one tied to your display, HDR"
Yeah you assume correct, the HDR everyone talks about right now, not the old one that just seemed to increase bloom. HDR and expanded color range are gonna play a pivotal role in the next gen. In 3 years time buying a cheap HDR tv will be possible, look at 4K, it's almost impossible to buy a non-4K tv now and there are decent tv's at the $500-600 range.
"Scorpio's feature set is baked and fully ratified.
Next Gen will bring something different"
Well I'm looking forward to how MS will position the Scorpio against PS5 then, a short 3-4 cycle for Scorpio and then putting out a new console with games that are not gonna work with Scorpio is gonna piss off people.
"We do need Nintendo to stick around, same with Sony and Microsoft, they all push each other forward and progress the industry as a whole."
Agreed, they just look a little too risk averse. I think the X2 would really have been the sweet spot for the Switch, capable of providing 1080p in docked mode, and being more energy efficient undocked with longer battery life.
