What will sell better, Splatoon 2 or Mario Odyssey?

[Wyrdness]

JWeinCom said:

 Consult a dictionary.  Competitive has nothing to do with rank.  We've had competitive games for years before online play was a thing.

Using a roller is a pretty much entirely different experience from using a gatling gun.  We're assuming people who play Splatoon actually want to win, and aren't simply firing in the air.  Winning, or even just playing well, requires knowledge of the different weapons, and strategies on how to deal with each.

I'm not sure what Fifa has to do with casual games.  But yeah, people who have been playing for 20 years and are familiar with the industry standard controls, they are likely not casual. The success of the Wii wasn't based on people who had been playing games since the NES days.

You're trying to argue that simultaneously using two joysticks is less complex than moving one.  This is mind boggling.  It's basic math and common sense that doing two things at once is more complex than doing one.

Yes, 2D games are simpler.  Splatoon is a 3D game.  Are you trying to argue that Splatoon is as simple as New Super Mario Bros?  If not, I don't know why you keep bringing this up.

It would be difficult to beat Sunshine with only run jump and crouch considering that there is no run button.  Pretty sure I could beat it with the jump, squirt, and switch nozzle buttons.  I might have to press the b button, but I would have to do so less than 5 times over the course of the game.  

Galaxy didn't require a second joystick, nor did 3D World.  There quite literally hasn't been a Mario game that required two joysticks in nearly two decades.  And even if it does, you've conveniently ignored that you are almost never required to control Mario and the camera at the same time.  

As for which is more difficult, this is common sense.

Doing two things at once is more complex than doing one thing at a time.  In Splatoon you have to constantly manipulate the camera while moving.  Mario rarely requires this.

Doing something with an active threat is more complex than doing something without an active threat.  Mario's enemies will rarely attack unless approached.  Splatoons will.

Doing something while under a time limit.  In Splatoon, if you are hit or fired at, locating your enemy quickly is literally a matter of life and death.  You're basically never required to quickly manipulate the camera in Mario.  Unless you decide to do it at a weird time, you'll have pretty much as long as you like to set things up.  In most cases, you can put the controller down, make a sandwich, walk your dog, and then move the camera, and you'll be fine.  

Controlling something is obviously more complex than not controlling it.  In all recent Mario games, the camera has been mostly automated, which is why they haven't required a second joystick.  Even Mairo 64 had an ai controlled camera (although it wasn't very good).  Splatoon's camera is fully manual.   

In Mario you have basically limitless tries.  At worst, you'll be set back five minutes, and if history is any precedent, you'll have a get out of jail free card if you die more than several times.  And you can always skip the mission and do another one.  The penalty, going back for likely 2 minutes at most, is not extremely cruel.

In Splatoon if you die, you don't get to start over.  The penalty will contribute to you losing the match, as you lose valuable time.  And you don't get to simply jump to a teammate, because superjumping literally puts a giant target on your jump point.  Unless you're positive there are no enemies in the area, or that your teammates can cover you, then it's actually a pretty bad idea.  Super jumping actually isn't all that common for this reason.  Suggesting that you can just jump straight to your teammate is misleading at best.

Both games punish you in different ways that make sense for the genre.  I don't think either is more or less punishing.  They just do diffent things, because respawning wouldn't make sense in Mario, and going back to a checkpoint wouldn't make sense in Splatoon... Although that's exactly what happens in the single player mode.

I see you've completely ignored everything I said about the enemies.  I take it you accept that battling enemies with real intelligence that are not bound to any set pattern and can attack from any angle is more complex than battling enemies with simplistic set patterns that are generally placed so that you can see them in advance?

Again you not knowing the concept of terminology is not a problem of mine, competitive play and casual play are common terms with multiplayer games, your ignorance of this is not a strentgh for your argument..

No, strawman argument, someone doesn't need to know how to use all weapons to win they just need to find one they're comfortable with, dealing with each weapon is straight forward especially in casual play.

No you can have been gaming for years and be casual as being casual is determined by your gaming habits, casual gamers only stick to a few games here and there and they've been around since the NES days. FIFA is a game that many casuals pick up and often casuals would just pick up the platform that has games like these, COD is another game that attracts them as does GTA.

No I'm not arguing that using two joysticks blah blah I'm arguing that your argument is flat out daft because under your logic pressing buttons would be hard for casuals because you're using your other thumb, the only mind boggling arguments here are the ones you're desperately reaching for. It's even more contradictory when you're arguing and the game you're trying to highlight will use the second analogue stick.

If you can't understand or grasp how context in an argument works it's best you don't try to argue as 2D Mario highlights how being simple helps sell to casuals and Splatoon is more simple then any 3D Mario.

Galaxy and 3D World aren't open world like 64, SS and SMO, they're far more linear so common sense tells you that a fixed camera can work in them in an open world game though a fixed camera can be tedious to disastrous this is a prime example of what I'm talking about in you reaching in your argument.

Mario games have active threats depending on the situation, level, task etc... Mario also has situations where the threat isn't even an enemy and related to a task you're cherry picking here. Mario even has situations like underwater sections and so on which change the dynamic of the game.

Look at your argument here, a get out of jail free card, that line alone just proved my entire point about it not being as casual friendly, your comments about super jumping not being common makes me question your experience of Splatoon even more as it's very common otherwise players would lose ground trying to traverse the map another false claim in your argument.

As for enemies I didn't need to respond to it because it's already been addressed and you kept side stepping when I highlighted your logic with the MK and Smash analogy and how casuals buy that game in large numbers. Enemies who can think can not only be worse than AI controlled enemies they're still bound by the same limits as anyone else so that argument never really had any ground to begin with as it can go heavily in the other way.