What will sell better, Splatoon 2 or Mario Odyssey?

[JWeinCom]

Wyrdness said:

JWeinCom said:

 

I suppose you missed where I said, "especially if the matchmaking is as poor as the first one".  I think my level in Splatoon is about 30 or so.  When I play I'm regularly put with players that are up to 20 levels above or below me.  I'm pretty confused about the non-competitive modes you're talking about.  Aside from the short single player mode they don't exist.

 

Suppose we have two recipes.  Recipe A and recipe B.  Recipe A was created in 1995.  Since then, the amount of sugar in the recipe has been consistently scaled back.  Is it more or less sweet compared to recipe B?

The answer of course is that we have no way to tell.  Because how much something has changed over the years has no bearing on how it compares to something completely different.  How much Mario has been simplified has nothing to do with how it compares to Splatoon.

No.  I didn't claim that Mario Kart is stressful, or competitive play is not casual friendly.  Nowhere did I say any of those things, so stop putting words in my mouth.

Having a game put a timer on your actions, or having aggressive enemies that can attack you from half a screen away objectively makes then more complex and challenging than games without those features.  Of course, these are not the only factors that make a game more or less complex, so there are other factors (for instance Mario Kart's tendency to give the last place player better items) that also need to be considered.  That's why I didn't mention these things as the be all end all of accessibility, but just one factor.  When you compare all the ways that Splatoon is more complex, then it is pretty clear that it is more complex overall.

Again, you don't really seem to understand how comparing things works, or you'd stay focussed on 3D Mario and Splatoon.  I already said 2D Mario is simpler than 3D.  That has nothing to do with how it compares to Splatoon.

There is absolutely nothing that would make navigating Mario Odyssey's World more complex than navigating Splatoon's, aside from the fact that levels in Mario are somewhat larger.  Both require navigation in a 3D space.  Splatoon also involves a whole host of other actions, all while dealing with enemies that are equal in power to you, and can attack from any angle even if they are nowhere near you.

Splatoon is more complex in basically every way, which makes sense because shooters are generally more complex than platformers.  If you'd like to tell me specifically what makes a 3D Mario game more complicated than Splatoon, go ahead.

I know perfectly well how comparisons work mate you seem to be the one struggling as reading your reply it's clear you didn't even read some of the points properly, Splatoon has an unranked mode for casual play your level doesn't measure your skill only your number of games with the game hence why it only unlocks gear, rank is measured by letters S, A, B etc... the fact you don't even know this makes me question your experience with the game altogether. You even need to get to level 5 or so to start playing competitive modes unless they patched that out so newcomers play a number of casual bouts before they play higher skilled players so by default your match making argument is null and void as what you're refering to is not competitive match making you're just playing other casuals.

Under your own logic playing Mario Kart with other people trying to win would be stressful for a casual because you're arguing people would get discouraged in a 4v4 because the is another team trying to win, you may as well argue Smash is the same because the other player is trying to win. You've not given any concrete arguments why Splatoon is more complex tbh.

The 2D Mario part is were I know you're not reading the post properly, it was brought up to highlight how simple games sell better to casual players and yes having larger more complex worlds is more complex, Splatoon are small simple arenas that you spread ink in that you can use your squid ability in you simply run around and fire your weapon and don't have to worry about how many kills you rack up. A large open world Mario would not only require more use and knowledge of the move set than Splatoon does but needs a more avid approach to progress compared to shooting ink around a small arena.

I know perfectly well how comparisons work mate you seem to be the one struggling as reading your reply it's clear you didn't even read some of the points properly, Splatoon has an unranked mode for casual play your level doesn't measure your skill only your number of games with the game hence why it only unlocks gear, rank is measured by letters S, A, B etc... the fact you don't even know this makes me question your experience with the game altogether. You even need to get to level 5 or so to start playing competitive modes unless they patched that out so newcomers play a number of casual bouts before they play higher skilled players so by default your match making argument is null and void as what you're refering to is not competitive match making you're just playing other casuals.

Competitive means you are in competition with other players.  It has nothing to do with whether you are ranked or unranked.  Unless I'm playing single player, I am playing a competitive game in every mode.  Don't blame me because you are not using the right words.

The game actually measures your skill on both modes because you are awarded extra points for wins and based on individual performance.  Even if it was measuring only number of games (it's not) we can logically expect a person at level 50 who has played the game a lot to be better than a person at level 15.  People playing unranked are not necessarily casuals. They could just be people that prefer splatfest to the other modes of the game.  

Under your own logic playing Mario Kart with other people trying to win would be stressful for a casual because you're arguing people would get discouraged in a 4v4 because the is another team trying to win, you may as well argue Smash is the same because the other player is trying to win. You've not given any concrete arguments why Splatoon is more complex tbh.

No.  I'm not even sure where we got this because I said absolutely nothing about anything being stressful.  So, I don't know how you came to any conclusion about what is stressful according to my logic.  You're literally pulling things out of thin air.

The 2D Mario part is were I know you're not reading the post properly, it was brought up to highlight how simple games sell better to casual players and yes having larger more complex worlds is more complex, Splatoon are small simple arenas that you spread ink in that you can use your squid ability in you simply run around and fire your weapon and don't have to worry about how many kills you rack up. A large open world Mario would not only require more use and knowledge of the move set than Splatoon does but needs a more avid approach to progress compared to shooting ink around a small arena.

No, I'm reading it properly, I assure you.  But, you again don't know how to compare.  You can't just cherry pick one aspect and ignore everything else.  If Mario Odyssey is more complex in one area (larger worlds) that doesn't mean it's more complex overall, and that's literally the only argument you've brought.

Splatoon requires battling against other humans with human brains who are capable of spontaneously adapting to you and creating new strategies.  Mario involves fighting against enemies with limited set patterns.  Splatoon is objectively more complex in this regard.  Unless you would like to tell me that goomba AI is comparable to the human brain.

Enemies in Mario are generally put in your direct line of sight.  Splatoon enemies can strike you from anywhere and any angle.  Splatoon is objectively more complex in this regard.  Needing to be constantly aware of your surroundings in a 360 degree radius is far more compex than dealing mostly with things in your direct line of sight.

Splatoon enemies can attack you from half a level away or more.  Mario enemies don't.  This means you have to be constantly aware of the bulk of the level, which is again objectively more complex.

Splatoon requires constant manipulation of 2 physical joysticks, and one virtual joystick (gyro).  Mario requires one joystick.  Splatoon is objectively more complex here.

Splatoon requires 6 primary buttons (fire primary, fire sub, jump, transform, special weapon, center) and 5 secondary buttons (map, warp buttons).  Mario requires 3 primary buttons (crouch, jump, attack) and 4 secodary buttons (camera).  Some games may require slightly more or less.  Splatoon is objectively more complex.  

Enemies in Mario attack when approached.  If you stand still without an enemy in your direct vicinity, you will be almost always safe.  You have a virtually unlimited amount of time to formulate a plan of action.  Splatoon enemies will come after you.  Splatoon is objectively more complex in this regard.  

Enemies in Mario generally will not kill very quickly, and will take a minimum of 3 hits in the 64 style.  Several weapons in Splatoon will kill you in one hit, and virtually every weapon will kill you within a second of direct fire.  Splatoon is objectively more challenging and complex here.

And while you can just go around spraying ink haphazardly, we're assuming people want games they can be successful at.  Spraying ink with no regard for enemies is a nearly guaranteed way to lose.