By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
Zekkyou on 20 March 2017
Edit Thread
Jaicee said:
Zekkyou said:

I didn't say it wouldn't have an effect, i just disagree with the amount of weight you're putting on Horizon itself. If Horizon was a multi-platform title that managed to push 15 - 20 million copies, then i'd agree its effect would be substantial. You're right that gaming hasn't yet had a female focused AAA title achieve truly huge success (off the top of my head, i think FF13 has the record at 8m+), and one is likley needed to really kick start a larger push, but i don't see Horizon being it.

It could be argued it'll effect Sony themselves, but they've already had several such titles in development for a while now. They seem less concerned about if a game has a male or female lead, so much as just letting their developers tell their stories. I think that's the best way to do it.

As a side note (because i'm not sure if you misunderstood me, or i'm misunderstanding you), when i say the "media" i'm not talking about people like Anita Sarkeesian, but the media as a collective. Publishers absolutely do care what the media says, many even use review scores as the basis for their developers getting bonuses. To have more female titles, we need publishers to know it won't effect their bottom line. To increase the chances of that happening, we need them making more of those titles. To make them do that, they need to see it as less of a risk. I think the media is slowing that process.

It's worth adding here that when I say "Horizon", I'm not necessarily always referring to Horizon: Zero Dawn, but often to Horizon the franchise. We already know that a sequel starring Aloy is in the works and the saying is that if the first installment is a hit, the sequel will probably be a bigger hit. Even as things stand though, Horizon: Zero Dawn may be well-positioned to at least approach the record you referenced eventually.

As to the media, yeah it's possible that reporting on phenomenon like Gamergate may possibly have negatively impacted the reputation of games as a medium by painting gamers with a broad brush sometimes, but at the same time, I also think that that section of the gaming population deserved to be criticized and shamed. I wish the media didn't paint gamers with such a broad brush sometimes, but I also hope that we're not just passing the buck and being like 'the next time something like that happens, nobody should say anything'. And I don't see why the opinions of male gamers have to be the only ones that publishers concern themselves with anyway. You mentioned the example of Final Fantasy XIII selling 8 millionish units. Well one-third of those units were sold to female players.

I can understand that more. I think Horizon has a lot of hurdles to cross to establish itself as a consistently viable IP though, mostly relating to GG. They've shown they can do a good job of polishing established ideas, now we have to wait and see if they can give Horizon's sequel a gameplay identity of its own. If they can, then it could well be another Uncharted.

The media should definitely report on those who are genuinely terrible, but as you say it's the broad strokes that are really an issue. It's hard to know if that'll ever stop though; the gaming media seems to genuinely hate its audience, with little discrimination between the awful and the normal.

Male gamers definitely shouldn't be the only consideration, them being the majority of the AAA market just makes them the largest concern for publishers. How they ended up as the majority is up for debate, but the end result is the same. They just need to learn that most gamers, both male and female, really aren't too bothered. Give them good games with a variety of interesting stories, and you'll be set.

I think the upcoming game that'll have the largest effect is TLOUII. Not only was Ellie actively called upon to be the lead, but she's a very well written character. I've not finished Horizon yet, but so far I've found it really difficult to relate to Aloy. I never feel like she's in danger, because she's also capable of everything the story needs of her. Her problems are all external, and even most of those are hand waved away (such as her impeccable social skills, despite having apparently only ever spoken to a few people before). She's not a bad character, i still like her, she just falls too close the [insert gritty while male] we've all come to groan at. I want more Horizon, but they could replace her with another female lead for the sequel and i wouldn't feel any loss. Obviously that's rather subjective though.

I think Ellie will show that not only can a female-focused AAA title be successful, but that said leads can be well written too. The former just confirms or expands the known, the latter create active demand for more characters like her.