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monocle_layton said:
numberwang said:
While it's all fun&games, fact remains, that Trump has an Ivy League Master, turned his father's business into a Multi-Billion-Dollar Empire, has a loving family and just won the Presidency against the most established politician/media machine ever. How many people can claim a similar level of accomplishment? It reminds me of people calling the last Pres Odumbo or W an idiot with demonstrable evidence to the opposite.

There's plenty of evidence to prove W was an idiot. For God's sake, he destroyed Iraq due to false claims of weapons of mass destruction. 

Well, either the whole of the CIA and NSA were idiots, or they just refuse to accept they were making shit up.

Heard a radio interview with an Ex-CIA dude and he admitted that all the intel was wrong (in hindsight). But that CIA and NSA "honestly" thought it was more probable that Saddam was secretly doing WMD stuff, and they were obviously in GWB's ear about it and telling him what he wanted to hear. If course GWB was looking for a reason to invade. But I think the confidence of the Intel community and GWB's confirmation bias meant he believed the WMD were there and he really was totally surprised when it turned out to be BS. The guy said that while the intel community were working off sketchy information because they had no good sources of intel direct from the Saddam regime their assessment was that it's better to invade and be wrong about WMD than to not invade and maybe be right about WMD. But they were still acting only on probability and best guess, not on a high degree of certainty.

I think the case can be made perahps that Bush was a bit intellectually lacking, but not based on the Iraq shit show.

What Bush and Blair should be roundly criticised for is making up reasons after it became clear there were no WMD. Oh we had to invade because he's a bad dude. We had to invade because terrorism (which Saddam has never been linked too). Because it was the moral thing to do. Couldn't admit that they went in based on bad intel, which they believed at the time to be possibly true rather than likely to be true.

For the record, I was always opposed to the Iraq invasion as soon as Blair and Bush started using the term "regime change". But the worst of it is the fact they both still say that they did the right thing. Y'know, if they let Iraq deal with Saddam on its own terms and its own time we might not have ISIS today. We might still have Saddam today, but I think there's an argument to be made that he's the lesser of two evils between him and ISIS.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix