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Veknoid_Outcast on 16 February 2017
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Mummelmann said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Can you expand on that idea of objectively good? I know you can objectively measure things like frame rate, resolution, available modes, etc. But how do you judge gameplay without using your personal opinion?

Well, for instance, if we use music as an example, I could make a fairly good case for why Michael Jackson is the greatest artist who ever lived. He had an amazing voice, wrote his own awesome lyrics, he did coreography and danced like a god, produced and sold tens of millions of albums. Yet, he's not my favorite artist, not even close.

Other example; Steve Jobs, I never liked and I never liked Apple products, objectively though, I still respect his salesmanship even if he could never sell anything to me, his merits speak for himself.

Civilization games, loved them since childhood but they have taken a turn for the worse for me since they've been diluted and simplified a couple of times now and I find myself no longer wanting to play them. As an easier introduction into a heavy and complicated genre though, it's still a good series objectively speaking and the gameplay is still good even if some of the mechanics I enjoyed are gone or simplified.

I really don't enjoy the Harry Potter books, tried reading three, found them childish and whacky compared to the more focused fantasy I'm used to since childhood, but I still recognize the series' objective worth by appreciating the prose and seeing its impact on culture and a whole generation of people.

I see some things as objectively good, even though I don't personally find them highly entertaining. I remember working at a Rihanna concert, I can't stand her music, but the show was spectacular and she had an amazing voice live, so I still appreciate that she's objectively a good performer.

Does it make any sense to you? I find myself thinking more and more like this and it's making my whole life easier, it's especially important that I learn how to think this way through my current job, where being objective is extremely important in most situations.

Thanks! And I definitely see what you're saying. But I'm still unsure. It's possible to objectively measure things like concert tickets sold or cultural impact, but I still think game design or artistic design falls outside those empirical data points. I think we can call games objectively popular or successful but I don't think we can ever call them objectively "good." That beauty, or lack thereof, is in the eyes of the beholder.

Even if we note that game A conforms to established norms of game design greatness, we have to look at who set those norms: a collection of people with specific tastes and priorities.