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RolStoppable said:
FloatingWaffles said:

@ bolded: Of course there is such a thing as coming to an agreement. Just because a developer might have been hoping that the Nintendo Switch would be more like a regular console like the PS4 and Xbox One doesn't mean they are going to whine and throw a tantrum and decide not to support it out of spite because they didn't get what they wanted. Like I said, they just have to deal with it. Maybe they'll say they don't want to support it because they had hoped it would be something else, but it is up to Nintendo to change that, not wait on the developer in hopes of them chaning their mind over time. Developer's primary goal when making games is simple: money.  Without making money no games can be made. When a company makes a system, it is their job to sell that system to developers and show them why it is worth supporting. Which is why, as I also said already, Nintendo needs to keep in talks with these developers to convince them to support their system, not start burning down bridges.

The idea that the only way Nintendo can gain the support of those developers is to give them exactly what they want is absurd, with enough talk i'm positive they could eventually come to an agreement even if there was a really stubborn developer out there. This is an industry.

If you honestly don't see that and you truly think that a developer wouldn't listen or change their mind no matter what then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There is such a thing as Nintendo offering something unique and still being able to get good third party support, just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it is impossible or that developers are unwilling to change their mind, the examples you listed are all due to Nintendo's fuck ups in some way.

The Wii sold the most but still missed out on a majority of third party support because it was underpowered as fuck. Had it been the same power level as PS3 and Xbox 360 you could be damn sure no developer would miss out on a 100m install base, it probably would have got everything like GTA as well.

The Wii U was just a massive fuck up in general with horrible marketing, being released way too late and underpowered yet again, and general confusion of the public not even knowing what the damn thing is.

I don't know much about the era of the Gamecube or why that failed so I can't comment on that one but I have heard things about how it went with different discs where as the PS2 went with optical media or stuff like that. 

Just because Nintendo makes something unique it isn't a result of third parrty developers just not wanting to support it, there is always some mistake made with those consoles. I would hope that Nintendo won't make any with the Nintendo Switch this time around.

You are working with the wrong premise. When Nintendo makes a system, the highest priority is to sell it to consumers because that's where the money will come from. Nintendo doesn't gain anything from making concessions to third party developers who make games that don't bring in more consumers. The underlying problem in such discussions is that it's too common that people analyze Nintendo in the same way as they would Sony and Microsoft, but only the latter two are comparable while Nintendo is markedly different.

It's also not absurd to believe that there is no convincing certain developers. You say that this is an industry, as if it that meant that all business decisions will be reasonable and rational. What we have in reality are third party publishers who have openly insulted Nintendo console owners which is an action that contradicts a willingness to sell products to certain consumers. We can agree to disagree on that, as well as on the rest we talked about.

Nintendo always makes mistakes with their consoles, but the same is true for every other console manufacturer as well. The crucial difference between them is that third parties take the stance to accept whatever a certain company puts out as the standard, and that company is not Nintendo, so they will always divert from the standard in some way, i.e. they end up being screwed regardless of what they do. It has happened too often to ignore and the reasoning is laughable on a regular basis (like the GameCube discs you've heard of). Meanwhile, Nintendo does all their crazy things in the handheld market, but that has not hurt them anywhere close as much. That's because there is no other company who gets to dictate what the standard has to be, so Nintendo has to deal with a lot less bias against them. That doesn't come down to sales, because when the Wii ran circles around the PS3, third parties held on to having the dreaded Cell processor as their lead platform despite losing significant amounts of money on it (third parties have never lost that kind of money on Nintendo projects).

So...in other words, you don't mind Nintendo continually pumping out Wii U 2.0s, not caring about the competition or what makes them successful? Without caring about 3rd parties? Without 3rd parties, this will be another Wii U. But, I guess it's Nintendo, so all is good.

And devs don't care what kind of gimmick you are chasing, they will support it in some way or another. They just want enough power in your "next gen" system that they don't have to basically two separate versions of the same game just to get it on your system. And now, Nintendo's 9th gen system is considerably weaker than Sony and MS's 8th gen system. That's not going to make devs happy when they are pushing the Pro and Scorpio, but then have to turn around and figure how to degrade their games enough to make it run on the Switch.