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Nuvendil on 18 October 2016
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curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

Well I'll drop the Wind Waker argument, but I will hold that a degree of objectivity - though not pure objectivity - is possible.  I'm a pretty adament holder to that as a creator myself cause if there are no real quality standards of any kind...then what the crap am I striving towards?  It's a mix, and taste, of course, is always subjective.  

But I think it's very wise to come to recognize that it's possible to not like something that is truly good and to like something that is truly not very good.  I've never gotten a quarter of a way through a Souls game, but I would still give Bloodborne a very high rating, like a 9 or so.  Meanwhile I have spent hundreds of hours with Mount&Blade but I would never in a million years rate it higher than like a 6 cause while it has a lot of original ideas and a good foundation that I have fun with, in terms of presentation, writing, etc...the game is a shit circus.  And to give it much higher than a 6 would be a diservice to games like OoT, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyrim, etc etc etc that stand in the 8+ range.  

But anyways, this is not the place for a philosophical debate of interpretation, evaluation, critique, and all that.  

You can respect/admire something without necessarily liking it, I agree, (for instance I respect GTA 5's technological achievements even if I'd rather deep throat a cactus than play it) but the way I see it, even that that respect/admiration is based on what we subjectively think is worthy of respect/admiration.

To bring it back to Zelda, I actually have a hard time these days picking between Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess as my #2 pick behind Ocarina. SS has the better controls, combat, and non-dungeon areas, while TP has the better style, bosses, and partner.

Personally, I have Twilight Princess HD as my favorite Zelda.  It has writing almost as good as Skyward Sword, Midna is an amazing character, great art style, a good overworld, a good story, good world building.  Basically, does everything really good.  

Skyward Sword has excellent dungeons, unique controls, excellent art style, and the best writing BUT a weak overworld approach (I don't find it that bad though), a good bit of revisiting areas, etc.  Wind Waker has a vast world, improved combat, and some very entertaining characters, but too few dungeons and some monotonous end game stuff hold it back.  Basically, these two have some excellent points but some marked weaknesses that pull them down.

OoT is, imo, jack of all trades, master of none.  Good plot, flat charafters.  Good combat, not much variety to it.  Lots of dungeons with challenging puzzles, but not very interesting to traverse.  Art style gets things done but can feel generic.  Big world, not much in between big areas.  Basically, all pretty good, never feels great.  

Haven't finished Majora's Mask, but I feel it will fall in with WW, SS as a game with really strong areas and some marked weaknesses.