If you had enough evidence to know that God is real, would you love Him or hate Him or what?

[WagnerPaiva]

setsunatenshi said:

So it is a Pascal's wager afterall then.

allright I'll play:

1- so if your father was a serial murder/rapist that would torture people for fun. if he would just for laughs burn your skin with with a cattle prod? would you love him still?

2- if your father had sexually assaulted your mother and as a result you were born. let's say he would have disappeared and you'd have never met him. would you love him now? really?

3- what if your father was the dictator of the country you live in, and unless you would worship him he would torture you forever. stick needles under your fingernails, your eyes, forcefeed you to make sure you'll live a long live of torture with no human contact with anyone. would that really be worth of worship?

honestly hope you're not 'offended' by my examples, but at least i know they really aren't going to happen. on the other hand apparently you believe the entity you worship will torture me forever and that's all good for you. on that basis alone it's kind of sickening the entire belief, hopefully you took a second to read this and realize what it really entails. i'm not losing any sleep though, because I know it's all crap

So in short, you would still hate God, because your readings of the bible make you think God is the vilain of it, that murder, rape and torture for fun.

I do not take away the right of understanding the way you do, but I would like to make a few considerations.

The Bible tells a complete history, each chapter deals with a particular subject, or even particular era in history.

So, if we would create a timeline, it will go like this:

Creation - The first Temptation - The falling of man - The promisse of redemption: This happens in the very first 4 chapters, so, through the 39 books of the OT you have a clifhanger, the waiting for the redemption God promissed, when he talked about the consequences of choosing to not trust Him.

We also stablish two things: Lucifer invented lying and God can not lie. Lucifer´s falling is described later in Isaiah and Ezekiel and his M.O is detailed in Job. The reason of this falling is detailed in the Letters of Paul, spoil alert: It was pride, he wanted to be God.

So, after that we have:

- The promisse to Abhraam, the Exodus of Moses, the Kingdom of God (Israel), the Judges, the royal line of David, the decadence of Israel and, finally, the prophets.

The murders you mentioned are, of course, part of the wars of conquest to stablish Israel Kingdom. And in no moment God laughed or found pleasure in these wars, but they where necessary. And the rest of the world belonged to the host of heaven, not god, the fallen angels.

All of this is in the book, to believe or not is a choice, but, as I said, to simplify it is not possible.

So, all the murder and violence is the consequence of the very first time we turned our backs to the real source of all life and light, and because now this world belongs to satan, till the final act of this epic.

We are not automata, we all have real freewill, but God, knowing everything, is not hostage in this amazing history: in the end every single piece will fit where He wants, because there is no stopping God.

The rageful greed Judah acted by choice, but also served his purpose, so did Hitler and any evil person. Cause there is no rebellion that can really harm God.

What is the meaning of it all, according to the Bible. To realize that we are sinners, evil, and left to our own devices, our destiny would be doom.

Being born again is this realization, followed by a newfound love and trust in God´s escape pod for all this desolation: the Lord Jesus Christ.

God´s plan of salvation is the only perfect way to redeem people that really trully love Him BY CHOICE, not because of fear. Because we see all around people that hate Him.

The born again fear His mighty, but love and trust Him deeply. A born again christian loves God so much that he is thankful for every breath God gives to him, and he realizes we are not deserving of any of God´s gifts, but we do deserve wrath.

This sounds disgusting to the unbeliever, and it is written that it must be this way in scripture. It is all there, there is absolutelly nothing not written.

The endless genealogy old Earth theories, the sciences objections that would give atheists a moral stand to deny God, it is all in prophecy.

This is, of course, our belief. One can deny it, but to oversimplify it is not wise at all, because it is not a simple text, neither it is a product of a dumb mind. the 40 authors of the Holy Bible where, at least the most impressive minds of the planet, or, they were inspired by God himself.

So, you have to understand what is going on in each chapter, what era is in effect.

It is like I tell you that your grandfather killed 57 people.

Then you tell me I am a liar and your father is no murder.

Then I tell you he is no murder, the 57 people were nazi soldiers and your grandpa was a GI in World War 2, he liberated a camp were 8000 jews would be executed.

So, you have to understand the context.

God said that He take no pleasure in the death of the one that dies, so to say he does is a lie.

And the only thing He can not do is lying and abiding in evil. The very things that give power to the evil one and his angels.

This, of course, is religion, one can just think it is a lie. But, it does belong in a lore that makes absolute sense in itself, and even if it was a work of fiction, any contradictions would be a product of not understanding it correctly, because, as a narrative, it is flawless, the most impressive work of art ever made. Specially when you think the authors took 5000 years to write it, in different eras and places.

One can think it is all a lie, but to attack the integrity of the text is just partial understanding.