teigaga said:
Norris2k said:

In France we have 10.000 people classified as radical and potentially dangerous muslims. so, that's 1 to 500 muslims, 2%, and that's a lot, including only known people. So, let's say it's not acceptable that your family is at risk of dying in the hand of a crazy islamist. And let's say that there is no way to stop a single guy from renting a truck and play carmageddon IRL. How do you solve the problem ? Or are you telling me, it's OK to not solve the problem, you don't care ?

Firstly where did you get that figure from? France has an estimated Muslim population of 4.7m people.

10,000 is less than 0.2% of the muslim population. On top of that 10,000 is not a reliable figure on actual dangerous people, which why the vast, vast majority of that 10,000 figure commit no terror related crimes. Imagine using your same logic to deter rapists, mass shooters, domestic abusers. You'd essentially have to get rid of the male sex.

Secondly, I obviously care very much about the issue france and many other countries face but I'm not going to support ridiculous ideas just as a knee jerk reaction. If you care you should acknowledge that trying to get rid of a whole population of people (4.7m) is not only out of the realms of reality, it would also instigate racial and religious warfare on a scale that is simply not present in the current western world, which will make the country more dangerous, not safer. We also have to face the likely reality that solving the problem is a long term, generational effort, not some singular law which you put into place. How do you solve the problem of murder, rape, violence? 

10.000 is from Prime Minister. 2% is my genuine calculation mistake ! Still a lot more than 0.0002%. Ok, there not all gonna blow out tomorrow, but it is at least how big the radicalism is, and how big the problem is (considering it's underevaluated, with a population that have a tendancy to radicalism perhaps 10 times bigger). We totally use the same logic for everything, we don't have a police, surveillance system, just here for the people actually committing crimes, it's a lot bigger to prevent crimes, interrogate, intimidate. Do you think the police only deal with actual criminals ? We got rid of all weapons for all people, even for good people protecting their family, and the police is checking, we have laws, and yes that is in part for these very few people that could do a mass shooting. To remove or reduce a problem, you can't just chirugically act on the 0.00002%, the action has to be a lot broader, and that's how it actually works.

Secondly, let me rephrase your sentence to give you my view, changes in bold, and be honnest about that :

If you care you should acknowledge that letting prospere a whole population of people (4.7m) whose religion tells the law should be the shariah is not only out of the realms of reality, it would also instigate racial and religious warfare on a scale that is simply not present in the current western world, which will make the country more dangerous, not safer.

But still, it's not about moving the 5 millions people, but aknowledging that these 5 millions people are a problem, by their belief, lack of integration. So the surveillance should  be massive, people with 2 nationalities should have to choose, we should drain the cult money (you buy a kebab you give money to islam, cities are co-financing mosque, that's crazy), put in prison people that wear burka. Our tolerance to religion should be extremely low, they can have a belief, but not loud, not radical, not financed by foreign countries, not against modern morality. It's not a problem for me if a French muslim think he will have a better and more happy religious life outside France.

As for solving murder, rape. First it not an imported problem, it's not a new problem, that is a fundamental, stricly unsolvable problem caused by human nature. But, that said, Japan has 15 times less murders than USA (compared for the same amount of people), so clearly, the society you build, the people you accept in, the rules you have have a tremendous impact on the scale. Japan had its culture of permanent civil war, dangerous roads for centuries, so it's not like they were nice and all. And also, 15 times less, it's not just a number, it means that it is  restricted mostly to family problems, deeply disturbed people.

As about solving religion problem, restrict it to the realm of privacy, without any murder for years, I know for a truth it has been done in most countries. And in France I can tell we beat the shit out of them, really, and we had peace for 2 centuries, they cooled down. They lost money, privileges, they were mocked, forced to swear they are with the Republique, and when they rebelled, we fought a war. And that's thanks to that we achieved results. But it's not like I want a war or something, but this proud, rich, loud, expanding Islam leading to terrorism, I want it over in my country.