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SuperNova said:
Nuvendil said:

Also couldn't have been prevented if you made guns illegal cause a guy commited to setting up in some building and gunning down 11 police officers I think is well past the stage of giving a single solitary f*** about gun laws.  These types of crimes are the ones least effected either way by gun laws, but I digress.

 

As for this, it's these kinds of incidents and this "us vs them" and " arm yourself against the police" mentality implicitly and sometimes explicitly supported by certain haymakers, extremists, and "activists" (read "souless, narcisistic parasites") that is causing this continuous cycle of violence that has really become apparent in the past few years.  And the media making huge controversies for views, social media pricks making excessive drama out of some perverse narcisistic need for attention, and celebraties backing up the loons I previously mentioned ((*cough*Samuel L Jackson*cough*) only make it far worse.  Why do you think cops are so freaking nervous on the job now?  Especially young ones that heard about all this crap in the acadamy or their rookie year?  Cops are people and this kinda toxic crap effects people.  Hopefully this particular incident will help shock people out of it as it was a peaceful protest and all these cops and a bystander got shot not by cops but by some civilian prick.  But I doubt it.  All those people I listed at the start of this rant will be out making their rounds and using the very people they claim to represent to stir up ire and tension all for their own ends.  Disgusting situations.

I keep reading these kinds of statements regarding the correlation between gun violence and gun laws.

And while I don't think it's completely wrong I also think it is a little too short sighted. It seems to  imply that it's inherently easy to illegally obtain a gun. That might be true in US, but I think that is (at least in part) also due to the very liberal gun laws.

There's famously more guns in the US than people. A giant amount of guns that is so hard to keep track of, that it's easy for some people to have legally obtained guns fall off the grid and enter the black market. The sheer volume of guns in circulation probably makes it considerably easier to obtain an illegal one.

While it's true that even in a country with tight gun control like germany more gun crimes are perpetrated with an illegally obtained gun (40%) vs. legally obtained ones (5%), the biggest amount of gun crimes (50%) is still obtained with license free guns (gas pistols, bobby pistols etc.). Also the black market for guns is tiny and as such it is very hard for the average citizen, even a deranged one that want to shoot cops, to even illegally obtain a gun in the first place. As such, the overall gun crime percentage is only 0,2%. (Those 0,2% include threats made with bobby pistols and toy guns btw.)

I understand that historically guns have always been an important part of US culture, but to deny the benefits of tighter gun control is dangerous imo.

I'm not saying no new legislation should be put in place but people grossly oversimplify things.  And frankly, I would like to see us first actually enforce the laws we have - cause there are people with guns right now who shouldn't have them under the laws of their state.  And the illegal gun trade in the States is small partly because guns are so readily available.  My main point was that those determined to kill people in this manner, essentially completely throwing their lives away, will find a way.  Cause another aspect people often overlook is that no two countries are alike.  The United States is, for better and worse, enormous in size and population and policing it in all aspectsis more complex than most countries, which is something that must be considered when constructing regulations for something like fire arms and how it might inflate the illegal gun trade.  Personally, I think a good start would be to 1) charge those who sell guns to permitted individuals liable for crimes committed with the gun (so, for example, if these punks were unpermitted charge the seller with negligence or even negligent homicide) and 2) require a presentation of a psychological evaluation (obviously from a certified private professional) when applying for a permit to carry a weapon that confirms you are stable and suffer from no dangerous psychological conditions.  That would take legal weapons out of the hands of most of these loons.