Where are the feminists?

[setsunatenshi]

Teeqoz said:

setsunatenshi said:

1- why should i acknowledge those are a minority? what studies do you have to back that claim up? I said there are different types of feminism and that by itself indicates there's no 1 minority, there might be plenty of minorities that in the end could make up quite the majority. I can tell you though that the most prominent and vocal feminists nowadays are what you.

Maybe check the simple wiki on feminism and you'll see how many different types there are. Here ya go, hope it helps:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movements_and_ideologies

(let's not get started on islam or religion comparisons, it would take us way off topic)

 

2- how can feminism have anything? there's such a thing as a 'feminist theory'. Again wiki is your friend, but just to give an example:

"Themes explored in feminism include discrimination, objectification (especially sexual objectification), oppression, patriarchy,^[3][4] stereotyping, art history^[5] andcontemporary art,^[6][7] and aesthetics."

on pathriarchy, again from the standpoint of feminist theory:

"Feminist theory defines patriarchy as an unjust social system that enforces gender roles and is oppressive to both men and women." " Feminist theory typically characterizes patriarchy as a social construction, which can be overcome by revealing and critically analyzing its manifestations."

 

3- if a person really is for equality of opportunity regardless of gender, they should simply call themselves egalitarian. if they decide to consciously call themselves feminists, then they are saying something more than so called 'equality between genders'.

 

4- you just proved my point. the same way you can't say 'if you're in favour of equality for genders, you're a feminist', you also can't say 'if you're in favor of equality and no social classes dividing the people, you are a communist'

both terms include a lot more than that 1 definition, so yes, of course it's insane to say someone is a feminist or communist just because they may agree with one of the tenants of both beliefs

Okay fine, I acknowledge that only using the dictionary definition of feminism doesn't cover the whole picture (but talking about feminist theory is overcomplicating the matter. Do you think most feminist have read up on "feminist theory"? Your little excerpt from wikipedia also doesn't state anything about patriarchy being something universally believed in in feminism, just that it's one of the "themes explored" in feminism. It also brings us to what Pokoko said, it's the reality that matters. Just like the communist manifesto seems pretty jolly good in theory, that's not how it has worked in practice, it doesn't matter what is so called "feminist theory" if it doesn't reflect the standpoints of most feminists). But I stand by my original statement that "it's not about equality, it's about women>men" is complete bullshit. 

I also explained to you, egalitarianism is a much broader term than feminism. Egalitarianism is closely related to socialism and communism. Egalitarianism is about equality for everyone regardless of everything, not just gender. I am both a feminist and an egalitarianist though.

that's fine, all I wanted was to show why that basic definition should not be used to tell someone else they are or aren't a feminist. i personally dislike the term and would never call myself feminist exactly because it would not be a correct term to define my beliefs on the topic of equality. I would call myself an egalitarian and a humanist. I don't need a special term to say I believe women and men should have the same opportunities and not be discriminated. The same way it's enough for me to not be racist, I don't need 1 specific term to say I believe in equality of people of different races. Or that tall and short people should be treated fairly. Equality for blue eyed and brown eyes people is important for me... and so on and so on...

i'm not in the position to tell what 'most' feminists believe, or what 'true feminists believe'. for me it's a pointless discussion. if person A tells me they are a feminist i will take them at their word. now if this term is good enough to cover people with such different viewpoints on the same topic, it's pretty much telling me the term is meaningless.

I'm sure the so called 'feminazis' as you put it would look at someone like you and say you're not a true feminist.

my one and only point: the term feminism is useless and people should be able to state their point of view without using it. it's simply muddying the water.

you and me probably would agree on a lot more regarding gender 'politics' than you and the 'extreme' feminists, yet you decide to use the same label they use, I (and many more people that would agree with both of us) don't